Favoriting Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from July 24, 2023 Favoriting

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Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. In our shift to a digital future, we need alternatives to Big Tech. Homepage: techtonic.fm

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Favoriting July 24, 2023: Josh O'Kane, author of "Sideways," on Google's failure in Toronto

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Today: Josh O’Kane, author, “Sideways: The City Google Couldn’t Buy,” on Google’s failure in Toronto

Sideways: The City Google Couldn't Buy

Josh O’Kane at the Globe and Mail

Is There Such a Thing As an Ethical Smart City? (by Alissa Walker in Curbed, Sep 14, 2022): “Alphabet was putting up the funds but expected a return on its investment: The neighborhood would double as a kind of urban-tech theme park to help the company sell its innovations to other municipalities. The project would be so well conceived, so perfectly livable, that Sidewalk Labs assumed the people of Toronto would flock to its meticulously designed, hypersurveilled boundaries. Within 18 months of the announcement, the Canadian Civil Liberties Association called the plan a ‘non-consensual, state-authorized mass capture of Canadians’ personal information.’




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Artist Track Images Approx. start time
  Josh O'Kane, author of "Sideways," on Google's failure in Toronto
Tomaš Dvořák  Game Boy Tune   Favoriting
Favoriting
 
  Mark's intro  
Favoriting
 
  Interview with Josh O'Kane  
Favoriting
0:09:24 (MP3 | Pop-up)
  Mark's comments  
Favoriting
0:47:49 (MP3 | Pop-up)
The Simpsons / Lyle Lanley  Monorail Song   Favoriting
Favoriting
0:55:35 (MP3 | Pop-up)


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Listener comments!

Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:00pm
Handy Haversack:

Hey, Mark, all.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:01pm
ultradamno:

Mark! Techtonwinders!
Avatar 6:01pm
joe_rosevear:

Hello, everyone.
  6:02pm
David in London:

Evening Mark and all Technoids.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:02pm
Webhamster Henry:

This show will now be called 𝕏-tonic.
Avatar 6:02pm
Rolando:

Greetings Mark and friends - looking forward to the show today.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:03pm
Wendy del Formaggio:

Welcome back, Mark! I may be lurking in a bit after I put away my records and stuff. I'm psyched for tonight's show!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:03pm
PaulRobeson1923:

Hi Hi Hi
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:05pm
ultradamno:

↳ Webhamster Henry @6:02
But it will still oddly still say Techtonic on certain points on the screen...
  6:06pm
Dean:

I'd prefer gin-tonic.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:06pm
Ciggy:

Hey - Ho / am I being watched in Tor•Ron•To
Avatar 6:06pm
Rolando:

Ken did a good show, I wanted to call in, but was one of those days and I had to focus on happenings at school / work.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:07pm
dale:

did you go to the old spaghetti factory?
  6:08pm
Quinn02:

I enjoyed learning about operational collapse. Hope it works out that way
Avatar 6:09pm
joe_rosevear:

Hmmm. Mosquitoes seems to be spelled OK, to me.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:09pm
ultradamno:

A good time to suggest listening to the most Canadian WFMU show Transmissions From Echo Beach on Sheena's Jungle Room on Thursday evenings wfmu.org...
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:10pm
Ken From Hyde Park:

What's that airport if it's not YYZ? Is it still Geddy Lee approved?
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:10pm
ultradamno:

Taquitoes from Canada have back bacon and beer, eh
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:10pm
dale:

i thought rikers would be the most sought after land in north america. imagine the river views!
  6:10pm
Andres:

First time to NYC in ’89 I flew from the island airport to Newark. Looking forward to this episode. It was quite the saga here.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:10pm
Webhamster Henry:

↳ ultradamno @6:05
It's spelled "𝕏-tonic", but pronounced "Throat Wobbler Mangrove"
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:11pm
The Butterman:

Mark, did you get coal-rolled in Canada? Or is that a distinctly American thing?
  6:11pm
yippie:

i want to fly to idlewild
Avatar 6:11pm
Juli:

Dome city?
Eep sounds scary
  6:12pm
Dean:

Once flew into Toronto, thence to Montreal. From there, a bus to Victoriaville for five days of Musique Actuelle.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:12pm
sydnius:

↳ Juli @6:11
you are #6
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:12pm
Webhamster Henry:

I'm all for a domed city! Just like Hunger Games' arena or the Truman Show!
Avatar 6:12pm
Juli:

↳ sydnius @6:12
????
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:13pm
tim:

Hi Mark! Hi everyone!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:13pm
ultradamno:

↳ The Butterman @6:11
There's got to be some hosers that do that, but probably not while listening to Jason Aldean
  6:13pm
Sam:

Google didn’t try to block out the sun so people would use more electricity?
Avatar 6:13pm
Rolando:

Love the Truman Show.
  6:13pm
wind:

Just in time!
  6:14pm
Dean:

Oreg'n
O-re-gone
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:14pm
StringOFperils:

That plot of land, in Toronto, is also one of the last few stretches of public park along the lake front....that Google almost talked the city into giving it to them...in return for ...prestige of some undetermined nature? Some promise of untold riches?? Don't know how Google bungled that...this city. Wadda buncha rubes, I tell ya
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:14pm
Mark Hurst:

Hi all, thanks for joining this evening!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:14pm
Wendy del Formaggio:

I'm from NJ and I say "Toronto" the same way. We Middle Atlantic folks love to elide consonants!
  6:14pm
markoliner:

welcome back, mr. hurst! glad you weren't carried away by those skeeters!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:14pm
tim:

I think midwesterners pronounce Toronto like a Canadian.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:14pm
sydnius:

↳ Juli @6:12
Today I Learned Juli never saw ”The Prisoner”
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:14pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ Wendy del Formaggio @6:03
Glad you're with us, Wendy
  6:14pm
Dean:

A monorail to disrupt and transform ... Anaheim!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:15pm
Wendy del Formaggio:

Mark, every time you say "monorail," I can't stop thinking of the Simpsons episode.
Monorail! Monorail!
  6:15pm
Andres:

↳ Dean @6:12
Nice! Always a spectacular lineup. Never made it myself.
Avatar 6:15pm
Juli:

↳ sydnius @6:14
Oh nooo lol

I am as free as a bird
No to google city
  6:16pm
Sam:

↳ StringOFperils @6:14
Maybe they should build affordable housing with nice parks and good public transit. That’s my “crazy” “disruptive“ “moonshot” idea.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:16pm
Ken From Hyde Park:

Monorails worked very well in Brockway, Ogdenville and North Haverbrook, I am told.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:16pm
DjLorraine:

Hello
  6:16pm
Sam:

↳ Wendy del Formaggio @6:15
Mono… d’oh!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:16pm
StringOFperils:

↳ Sam @6:16
That would be very welcome, anytime yesterday
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:16pm
tim:

This google guy sounds like a real dingus.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:17pm
ultradamno:

People have been saying Musk's X looks like the Xfinity X, but I think it looks like a logo for a douchey Drakkar Noir competitor
Avatar 6:17pm
Juli:

↳ Sam @6:16
Like giving back to society to help it run?
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:17pm
Wendy del Formaggio:

↳ Sam @6:16
YES, PLEASE!
  6:17pm
Sam:

↳ Juli @6:17
Yes!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:18pm
Wendy del Formaggio:

↳ Juli @6:17
You mean helping to meet people's basic needs? What a novel approach! ;-)
  6:18pm
Baja Joe:

Hello Mark and everyone listening.
Avatar 6:18pm
Chris from Brooklyn:

Moo
  6:18pm
Sam:

A car free neighborhood full of cobblestones, small stores and no technology is what people actually want.
Avatar 6:19pm
Juli:

↳ Sam @6:17
I believe in the ppl to overcome!
consumers:::::humans unite

Somehow alll I got is to buy consume less
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:19pm
dale:

dome-covered dreamworld sounds like carousel is required.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:20pm
Wendy del Formaggio:

↳ Sam @6:18
Yes, and please remember folks with limited mobility or baby carriages. Cobblestones are sweet, but the sidewalks should be smooth so all of us can get around without cars.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:20pm
Mike Sin:

This whole idea was dubbed “surveillance capitalism,” correct?
  6:21pm
Dean:

Surveillance capitalism is Shoshana Zuboff's take on these phenomena.
  6:22pm
Sam:

↳ Wendy del Formaggio @6:20
Yes, I didn’t mean only cobblestones! It should be easy for everyone to walk and bike and use wheelchairs. But some cobblestones are nice. They put fake ones in now on lots of places because people love the look.
  6:23pm
SM Ken:

Hi everybody. This domed smart city thing sounds more like a Shelbyville idea
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:24pm
Wendy del Formaggio:

↳ Sam @6:22
Indeed! Easy access and easy on the eyes: a better world is possible.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:24pm
Ken From Hyde Park:

There are also these X People: www.x.org
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:25pm
StringOFperils:

Urban civic removal of the very build-site Google wanted to appropriate, from Toronto, alone, would have been hugely deleterious to life in the city....people need that access to the harbour, to grass and water and air....they don't need a surveillance wall that you need biometrics to penetrate. What are they building in there?
Avatar 6:27pm
Chris from Brooklyn:

I prefer Logan’s Run dome worlds in theory

So long as Jenny Agutter clones circa 1977 are on the network

But not expecting the dwindling tech lord’s ability to actually provide my wishes even if I go on Carousel wayyyyyyy to late to accept their anti human initiatives to be suitable for the likes of any common human to apply


Omg.

Dan Doctoroff.

He sits in his castle overlooking the failed west side falafel on the west side yards

Scheming

Always

As we speak.

On the bright side him and Bloombito annihilated every old smoke stack in the boroughs for their failed schemes decades ago in order to coax the world to make NYC YET ANOTHER FAILED indebted post Olympic City.

Failure.

Thy Name

Is

Doctoroff
Avatar 6:29pm
Chris from Brooklyn:

Moses. Robert.

Actually a giant with useful initiatives compared to a

Ahem

Doctoroff

Feh.
  6:29pm
Sam:

Maybe Google can take over part of Montreal and only let people in if they can answer a series of questions in French. No anglos allowed.
Avatar 6:31pm
Chris from Brooklyn:

Failing upward definition:

See Dan Doctoroff
  6:32pm
Sam:

Sooner or later there will be a city desperate enough to let Google take over everything. It seems inevitable.
Avatar 6:33pm
Juli:

Stay sane everyone.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:35pm
melinda:

hi everyone
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:36pm
Ciggy:

Canadian Parliament only argues about bridges.
  6:36pm
P-90:

I often think we don’t talk enough about what’s happening in Canada. They’re next door, dealing with the same big issues we are: Cov19 and public health, climate change effects, wiring a big country for high-speed internet access, supply chain problems, new housing design and development, etc.
Over the years, I’ve made a point of following a number of Twitter accounts from Canadians involved with all these things. Anyone else use social media to keep an eye on what’s going on up there?
Avatar 🤖 6:37pm
herb.nyc:

Fascinating story. The hubris of google / alphabet is at level 11,12…. I just fear a less advantaged city may opt in. Oh, Sam sez same!
Avatar 6:37pm
Juli:

Lol saving force
  6:39pm
Carmichael:

Anyone who says“What the people want is …” is really saying “ What I want is …”
  6:39pm
Dan:

I'm certain they truly cared about democracy ($$$)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:39pm
sydnius:

🗿
Avatar 6:40pm
Juli:

Unity is all we have:::

There's no reason to divide over nothing:::

I would never have a ton of money because I'd give it all away
  6:41pm
Sam:

Citizens didn’t ask for robot dogs either!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:41pm
StringOFperils:

Big money property development has a lot of clout in today's Toronto; I think giant projects tend to just happen, as calls for public consultation are low-key. A lot of new architecture going forward very quickly....but the Google thing was some kind of obscure bid for it to create a techno-dutchy, or maquilladora that existed according to its own governance...it seemed
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:41pm
ultradamno:

Elon Musk's history with the letter x www.forbes.com...
Avatar 6:42pm
Chris from Brooklyn:

Hudson Yards.

Where they wanted to build Jets Stadium
Avatar 6:42pm
Chris from Brooklyn:

The only people per se

Are the security guards
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:42pm
PaulRobeson1923:

And the stairs that are closed because folks like to jump from the top
  6:43pm
GC in Bmore:

Hudson Yards has lotta lotta Unrented empty units in those buildings….
Avatar 6:43pm
Chris from Brooklyn:

Yes Paul.

Those suicidal kids ruined the experience.

That’s sarcasm.

What a typical boondoggle
  6:43pm
P-90:

Do these new LinkNYC 5G towers have surveillance cameras, microphones, etc in addition to “improved wifi access”?
Avatar 6:44pm
Juli:

Blaming the ppl for the ppl in authority's mistakes:::

I cannot believe all the misinformation in ppls brains rn
  6:44pm
Sam:

↳ P-90 @6:36
I watch Canadian news a lot. Especially from Quebec to practice my French. It seems like a different planet. The news is totally different, the priorities, the outrage, the way people talk to each other, so different, so fascinating.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:45pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ P-90 @6:43
Yes Link5G has surveillance gear installed, and the city is cagey about what it is and when it is enabled. Here's a past episode I did on Link5G: www.wfmu.org...
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:45pm
PaulRobeson1923:

↳ Chris from Brooklyn @6:43
Issues of our Sick society
Avatar 6:45pm
Chris from Brooklyn:

Meanwhile go down the street and Behold the Anti Human Moynihan Station

Good luck finding a seat not on the floor
Avatar 6:47pm
Juli:

I know about spirituality I've studied for twenty years
I know about love &
I am surprised how anti ppl are to the simple idea of love.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:47pm
Handy Haversack:

I consider it a civic duty to raise the middle finger at the LinkNYC spy towers that line the main street in my neighborhood as I walk by them.
Avatar 6:48pm
Chris from Brooklyn:

↳ PaulRobeson1923 @6:45
Indeed Paul.

Priorities.

As if.

Tear down the Penn Hotel

Subsidize and live in fear of MSG

I could go on

But

Jobs

Just don’t scratch the surface or notice the imbeciles behind the curtain “planning”
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:48pm
PaulRobeson1923:

You make me real
  6:48pm
Sam:

↳ Handy Haversack @6:47
Good on you Handy
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:48pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ Handy Haversack @6:47
Facial rec will turn into finger rec!
Avatar 6:49pm
Juli:

Never love any one who looks at you like you're ordinary:::
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:49pm
Webhamster Henry:

I like Urban Studies stories!
Avatar 6:49pm
Juli:

Terrified of normalization of our magic:::
  6:49pm
P-90:

Thanks @Mark. I’d heard you speak about the first generation kiosks, but the discussion of these new towers was in one of the rare Techtonic episodes I’ve missed. Will check out the archive.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:49pm
Handy Haversack:

↳ Mark Hurst @6:48
I am hoping for a Reflectacle thimble edition.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:50pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ P-90 @6:49
Hope you enjoy it!
Avatar 6:50pm
Chris from Brooklyn:

Hubris

See Doctoroff
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:50pm
Mark Hurst:

↳ Handy Haversack @6:49
One can dream!
  6:51pm
P-90:

The part about the city being “cagey” about the surveillance capabilities is the most unsettling part. A red flag.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:51pm
StringOFperils:

Goog!! The musical.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:51pm
Will thee Sound Guy:

Thank you Mark and Josh!!!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:52pm
PaulRobeson1923:

↳ Chris from Brooklyn @6:50
Hubris &
See
Buying expired surplus plastic from Boeing to build a Plastic Submarine
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:52pm
Handy Haversack:

↳ Mark Hurst @6:50
Also, good to see you Saturday, Mark. Sorry if I was not at my social best. It's been a hard time.
  6:52pm
Sam:

Thanks Josh! So glad the book is a success.
Avatar 6:52pm
joe_rosevear:

That was a great story!
Avatar 6:52pm
Juli:

It is cagey :::{
Society is cagey:::{{

Let's not get cagey
Fear cages!!~
Avatar 6:52pm
Rolando:

Thanks for the interview.
Avatar 6:52pm
gone with the wind:

yes it was!
  Swag For Life Member 6:52pm
Reagan:

↳ PaulRobeson1923 @6:52
Absolutely
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:53pm
Marley P. Dogg:

Great show today Mark! (As always)
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:53pm
Webhamster Henry:

Kind of like the "Amazon HQ 2" the didn't get anywhere near that far in Long Island City.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:53pm
Handy Haversack:

And thanks for another stellar episode! This might have been the happy one we were promised. Thanks, Josh.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:53pm
tim:

Good interview, Mark! It’s always heartening to hear when a corporation is unable to always get what they want.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:53pm
Dano59:

I love Toronto so I'm really happy this scheme failed.
Avatar 🤖 6:53pm
herb.nyc:

sideways may become a play? Nice! Wait, enron was a play too. A musical. I saw it. It was bleh. But I’ll think positive for josh o’kane. Terrific interview.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:54pm
Handy Haversack:

↳ Webhamster Henry @6:53
You should see the last-mile-fulfillment monstrosity they're building there now.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:54pm
PaulRobeson1923:

12 acres and 220 frost free days can yield how much cotton?
Avatar 6:55pm
gone with the wind:

↳ herb.nyc @6:53
maybe it welcome to Broadway :)
Avatar 6:55pm
Juli:

I am leaving the internet:::}
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:55pm
Ken From Hyde Park:

Thanks, Mark & Josh. Go, Leafs! 🏒
Avatar 6:56pm
Juli:

Don't go insane y'all
Don't compare each other to each other.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:56pm
G:

Dodged a tech fascism bullet there. But they’ll keep trying elsewhere.
Avatar 6:56pm
Juli:

Stay free!
Avatar 🤖 6:57pm
herb.nyc:

3 more mansions. Haha. And a bezos-y yacht
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:57pm
G:

Yacht yuk
  6:57pm
Dan:

The best time to stop giving these companies your information was 10 years ago, second best time is today.
  Swag For Life Member 6:58pm
Reagan:

Say no to billionaires
  6:58pm
chresti:

It’s all hype
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm
melinda:

↳ P-90 @6:51
agree
  6:58pm
Marie in Queens:

Great show, thanks Mark. Could we start with a WFMU citizen action of people having their dogs pee on the surveillance stations?
Avatar 6:58pm
Juli:

Yeah I'm a poor healthworker:::

Lol
These machines don't care about us
You should all care about us & each other...


The love needs to be real in the underground
  6:59pm
chresti:

Thanks Mark!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:59pm
ultradamno:

On his attention lust: the thing I miss most about Twitter was not thinking about who ran it.
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:59pm
Webhamster Henry:

It's Cart-licated! Thanks MArk!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm
StringOFperils:

Thanks, Mark. Stay out of the sun. Don't forget to laugh.
  6:59pm
P-90:

The dreaded Prog Cart!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm
melinda:

monorail!
  6:59pm
Sam:

Phil Hartman ❤️
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm
Mike Sin:

Living on a WFMU cruise ship is now the only way to live!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:59pm
Wendy del Formaggio:

MONORAIL!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 6:59pm
ultradamno:

↳ ultradamno @6:59
...I mean, I know who ran it, I just call him the Bluesky guy now
  6:59pm
chresti:

Get google out of sf!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 7:00pm
Webhamster Henry:

↳ Wendy del Formaggio @6:15
Wendy is singing along...
Avatar 7:00pm
Juli:

Yu think I wouldn't start a non profit w money?

Not buying fancy cars lol
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:00pm
sydnius:

Cushy Jobs!
Avatar 🤖 7:00pm
herb.nyc:

de blasio had idea for bklyn monorail. Killed?
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 7:00pm
Wendy del Formaggio:

Thanks, Mark!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 7:00pm
joe mulligan:

↳ chresti @6:59
hell yeah!!
  Swag For Life Member 7:00pm
Reagan:

↳ Mike Sin @6:59
yes indeed
  7:00pm
Homer:

Mono! D’oh!!!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 7:00pm
Wendy del Formaggio:

↳ Webhamster Henry @7:00
You know it!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 7:00pm
ultradamno:

Conan O'Brien's central contribution to society
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:00pm
Mark Hurst:

Thanks, all, good comments!
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 7:00pm
Will thee Sound Guy:

Monorail!!! 🚝
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:00pm
StringOFperils:

Monorail garbage pickup would be good.
Avatar 7:01pm
Chris from Brooklyn:

DeBlasio turned his nabe into a paradise

The rest of us? Meh
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 7:01pm
Wendy del Formaggio:

↳ Homer @7:00
Oh, Homie...
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 7:01pm
Ken From Hyde Park:

What about us brain-dead slobs?
  7:01pm
Barney:

What about us brain dead slobs?
  Swag For Life Member 7:01pm
Reagan:

↳ Will thee Sound Guy @7:00
hello will. I see you in the web feed
Avatar 🤖 Swag For Life Member 7:02pm
Ken From Hyde Park:

↳ Barney @7:01
Jinx!
  Swag For Life Member 7:02pm
Reagan:

↳ Reagan @7:01
*WAKE N BAKE
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:04pm
coelacanth∅:

Thanks Mark! Thanks Josh O'Kane!
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