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Mon. Oct 18th, 6pm - 7pm: The return of call screener Phil (More info...)

Options May 6, 2019: Roger McNamee, author, "Zucked: Waking Up to the Facebook Catastrophe"

Listen to this show: Pop-up listen Pop‑up player!

This week: Roger McNamee, author, "Zucked"

SIGN UP for this Friday's movie night: Killer Robots Movie Night at WFMU

- - -

SIGN UP for this Friday's movie night: Killer Robots Movie Night at WFMU

Silicon Valley investor Roger McNamee was an early advisor to Mark Zuckerberg in the early days of Facebook. McNamee's new book "Zucked" tells the story of his disillusionment, then horror, as Facebook created a "catastrophe" for users, and democracies, around the world.

Links to Roger McNamee:

• Twitter: @Moonalice

Book site for 'Zucked'

I Mentored Mark Zuckerberg. I Loved Facebook. But I Can't Stay Silent About What's Happening - by Roger McNamee (Time magazine, Jan 17, 2019).

‘Mark Is an Authoritarian’: A Facebook Investor Sounds the Alarm About the Company He Helped Build - Roger interviewed in New York magazine, Feb 2019.

A former social media evangelist unfriends Facebook - review of Zucked by Evgeny Morozov in Washington Post, Feb 2019.

Other tech news:

Facebook Faces a Big Penalty, but Regulators Are Split Over How Big (NYT, May 4): "A fine far above $7 billion appeared to have strong agreement, according to one of the people. Staff members and commissioners also began talking about making Mr. Zuckerberg personally liable, meaning that he could be named as a defendant in a future case."

• "Well this has been a fun journey," posts Kevin Roose (Apr 30), referring to Zuck's 2010 pronouncement that "the age of privacy is over," followed by Zuck's announcement last Tuesday at F8 (on Apr 30) that "the future is private."

• As one Twitter user put it, "It's easy to say 'the future is private' after spending years hoovering up user data, defiantly defending the social graph, and creating moats through questionable (at best) behavior with that data. It's a luxury to lock things down once you have everyone inside." And as NYT's Mike Isaac put it, "it is so jarring to hear every product leader at facebook be so relentlessly on-message about Privacy Privacy Privacy after years of espousing the opposite in every public opportunity."

• But really all you need to know about F8 is what Pranav Dixit pointed out: "Nobody on stage at the Facebook event showed any remorse, looked sorry, or apologized for the company's terrible year. When Zuckerberg admitted that their record on privacy wasn't very good, he was giggling like a naughty school boy like it was *funny*."

• Below: ladies and gentleman, Silicon Valley leadership:

...see also Jack Dorsey Is Gwyneth Paltrow for Silicon Valley (NYT, May 2): "no community has embraced Mr. Dorsey as their guru more than the fasters, who spend days on end just not eating. Mr. Dorsey’s very public endorsements of this movement have led to criticism that he is endorsing eating disorders."

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Sign up for this Friday's movie night: Killer Robots Movie Night at WFMU - Friday, May 10 in Monty Hall.

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Check out techtonic.fm for recent Techtonic interviews and Little Slice of Tech Pie segments.

PODCAST: Subscribe to the Techtonic podcast

Artist Track Album Label Images Approx. start time
  Silicon Valley investor Roger McNamee was an early advisor to Mark Zuckerberg in the early days of Facebook. McNamee's new book "Zucked" tells the story of his disillusionment, then horror, as Facebook created a "catastrophe" for users, and democracies, around the world.
Tomaš Dvořák  Game Boy Tune   Options Machinarium Soundtrack  No label 
  Mark's intro      
  Interview with Roger McNamee, Part 1      
0:12:28 (Pop‑up)
  Interview with Roger McNamee, Part 2      
0:36:17 (Pop‑up)
Moonalice  Live A Little (That's Right)   Options No album  No label 
0:57:12 (Pop‑up)

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Listener comments!

Avatar 5:54pm herb.nyc:

Hi Tech-cinco-de-mayo-ites, to prep myself for the show, I just bought a cup of coffee, qt of milk, and watercress- and I left my iPhone 5c at home. Let's see you do that! Also, I've seen ads for "Zucked Up" in the subway. Far out!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 5:59pm listener james from westwood:

Howdy, Mark and all!
Avatar 6:00pm BigCat:

I am enjoying a lovely Gin and Techtonic !

Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:01pm Daddy Hernlet:

Hello everyone! Get to listen on my drive home today!
Avatar 6:01pm annie:

Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:02pm Ike:

I've heard some similar things about certain nonprofits in NYC!
  6:02pm Coleusound:

Bella Tech and the Techtones
  6:02pm Dave Miss:

And accounted for
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:03pm ultradamno:

Hello Mark! Techstuplets!
Avatar 👻 6:03pm Bas NL:

Hi Mark!
Avatar 6:03pm Beast of Boonton:

Hello Mark!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:03pm chris:

hey, Mark and folks. lets dump the zucker.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:03pm Ken From Hyde Park:

Hayo! Anybody get dinged by the Mozilla certificate that expired over the weekend?
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:03pm Webhamster Henry:

Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:03pm melinda:

This will be good. Hi everyone!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:04pm chresti:

Hi Mark and Technots!
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:05pm Webhamster Henry:

Have fun at the movie, Techtonic Film Fans!
Avatar 6:06pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

For later :
Harry Shearer interview with Yasha Levine on the surveillance state and the history of the internet :
Much on the Origins - don't miss.
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:08pm Webhamster Henry:

My Friend Theresa point out that the pooe don't have an expectation of privacy - and I think that having no expectation of privacy (and being exploited that way) help contribute to that social state.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:09pm ultradamno:

Some kind of play on G8?
Avatar 6:09pm Jeff Moore:

`The "F8" name comes from Facebook's tradition of 8 hour hackathons.'

Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:09pm Webhamster Henry:

pooe -- "People" when you are a lazy typist.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:09pm melinda:

@Henry pooe?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:10pm Ken From Hyde Park:

pooe flute
Avatar 6:10pm northguineahills:

hola, technocots! (or is that a fruit or theme park?).
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:11pm Webhamster Henry:

I've actually done "pooey flute" recordings - I should do one for the Techtonic Theme song.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:12pm ultradamno:

Preparing for hilarity
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:14pm listener james from westwood:

Avatar 6:14pm Jeff Moore:

So crickets.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:14pm chresti:

I don't think he's capable of telling jokes
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:14pm G:

Cue Yakity Sax
Avatar 6:15pm geezerette:

Hello, Mark and all.
Watch Aldous Huxley being interviewed by Mike Wallace in 1957.Twenty-eight minutes of clarity and vision from sixty years ago. On Youtube. Which is ironic.
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:15pm Webhamster Henry:

Audio Emojis.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:15pm ultradamno:

I have to assume there were more than a few Jeb Bush "please laugh" versions.
Avatar 6:15pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

...BennyHill slapping his head even...
Avatar 6:15pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Nice WebHenry.
Avatar 6:15pm geezerette:

  6:16pm Sam:

You need Andy Breckman doing his fake laugh. Then saying “What did you say Zuck, I wasn’t paying attention.”
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:17pm Ken From Hyde Park:

Also acceptable would be Monty Python's giant foot and its accompanying "phhht" noise mashing the stage.
Avatar 6:17pm herb.nyc:

Oh, I'm now laughing at zucked's joke. It's very subtle.
  6:18pm Sam:

The joke was almost like a “let them eat cake” comment. Zuck is so arrogant and out of touch, he has no idea how serious this is.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:18pm Mark Hurst:

Hi all, thanks for joining this evening! Jeff Moore, thx for the explanation of the F8 name.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:20pm Mark Hurst:

@RevRabbit - saw the Yasha Levine interview, haven't listened to it, but glad he got some extra exposure. Here's Yasha on Techtonic last October: www.wfmu.org...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:20pm RomanDogBird:

zuck sucks!!!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:20pm Ken From Hyde Park:

Well, at least Zuck's wife sleeps soundly at night in that wacky sleep box.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:22pm Mark Hurst:

Facebook’s Zuckerberg Builds His Wife a Glowing ‘Sleep Box’ - www.bloomberg.com...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:23pm Mark Hurst:

Apparently it's not a box for her to sleep in but rather a glowing box for her to put her smartphone in. Because there's no way to set an alarm except through a smartphone (in a glowing box).
Avatar 6:23pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Thx Mark !
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:23pm ultradamno:

Wait, Bloomberg, not The Onion?
Avatar 6:24pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Avatar 6:24pm TDK60:

Sorry I'm late, Mark. My dog ate my homework...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:25pm Mark Hurst:

Hi TDK60!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:26pm ultradamno:

An escape chute isn't too far-fetched, I always assume he had a Mr. Burns-style trap door in front of his desk.
Avatar 6:26pm Linda Lee:

the phrase 'meet the beast' came up on Clay's accu this morning ~ & here it is again! hi Mark!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:27pm Mark Hurst:

Hi Linda!
@ultradamno - I guess it all depends where the chute is positioned...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:28pm melinda:

Mark I like that room in your twitter photo
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:29pm Mark Hurst:

@melinda, thx, it's cozy
Avatar 6:29pm Linda Lee:

fb definitely feels tailored for me by someone who doesn't know me from adam. it's very odd.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:30pm Mark Hurst:

@geezerette, good pointer, hadn't seen that Huxley interview.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:30pm chris:

this point is *exactly* why i left facebook. its just a feeding trough of crap i can't control. even w/o the privacy concerns and immoral behavior of the people in charge, this made me want to leave.
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:31pm Webhamster Henry:

Keep you logged in and 'engaged' online was also the basic philosophy of AOL. The fact that you are not on AOL right now should give you hope.
Avatar 6:31pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

I wrote poem:

Oh facebook MEMES
most intimate of BumperStickers
most rantingly earnest
& profoundly inspiring (!)
of supermarket flyers
clogging the mailbox
of my electronic
Avatar 6:31pm Linda Lee:

it really feels more like a toxic cesspool all the time.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:31pm Mark Hurst:

Sign up for this Friday movie night - we'll be watching "The Truth About Killer Robots" at Monty Hall: www.ticketfly.com...
  6:31pm dez:

celebrity flat was there drove me away and Mark's thorough explanation how to kill my page was my roadmap!
  6:32pm dez:

*celebrity flat-earthers*
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:33pm Mark Hurst:

@dez have you watched "Behind the Curve" on Netflix? great documentary about flat-earthers...
Avatar 6:33pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Aren't they revising & remarketing fb right now ?? A 'new version' supposedly gives you more agency...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:33pm melinda:

I have reduced my Facebook usage dramatically and feel better. It was making me really annoyed with people.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:34pm Carmichael:

This is beginning to sound like an episode of Joe Frank.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:34pm Mark Hurst:

Oh sure, a new and "improved" interface, and of course, "the future is private"... count me skeptical
Avatar 6:34pm Linda Lee:

*why* won't people i want to hear from contact me in other ways? **why***??????
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:35pm melinda:

@Carm yeah, haha
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:35pm Mark Hurst:

@Linda let's bring back email - non commercial, publicly owned, open protocol, and if you don't use Gmail, it's usually out of reach of Big Tech.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:35pm Carmichael:

@melinda, you can choose your friends, but you can't choose your ... uhhh ... "friends".
Avatar 6:36pm Linda Lee:

i've tried, Mark! they refuse! the stubbornness is impossible.
Avatar 6:37pm BigCat:

Mark, "___?_ Duresta" social media maven
first name
Avatar 6:37pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

It's happened too fast.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:37pm melinda:

@carm the facebook format encourages people to be annoying, even if they aren't in real life. I felt it was giving me a skewed version of people I know.
Avatar 6:37pm Linda Lee:

there are people i've known all my life & i need to chase them through that freakin' turd pile!
Avatar 6:38pm BigCat:

The Age of PIRACY is Here"
Avatar 6:38pm TDK60:

..non-commercial email sounds good.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:38pm melinda:

@Linda that sucks. "Turd pile" is funny though.
  6:39pm carrots:

yeah Peter!!
Avatar 6:39pm Linda Lee:

i think you're right about annoyance, melinda!
  6:39pm John from Florham Park:

This is scaring the hell out of me
Avatar 6:39pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Look how much better WFMU has been @ Community - w/ barely funds to stay above water. & fb is the biggest thing ever...seriously makes no sense.
Was just thinking fb used to let you out your fave books & films on the side...killed that...
Avatar 6:40pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:40pm Webhamster Henry:

@Mark Hurst I was in a store that was selling a 56K modem really cheap!
FIDONet Revolution!
Avatar 6:41pm Linda Lee:

don't be scared, John. as of now involvement in social media is still totally voluntary.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:41pm Mark Hurst:

@BigCat - Renee DiResta
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:41pm Mark Hurst:

@John wait 'til you hear this part...
  6:42pm John from Florham Park:

RRN63 I have found nicer people on here where I can have great conversation with unlike Facebook
Avatar 6:42pm Linda Lee:

why do i see you rubbing your palms together, Mark? :-D
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:43pm chresti:

He is planning escape, I could tell by his nervous laugh
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:43pm G:

I knew a guy in Silicon Valley on an email list about a professional topic of mine in the mid and late 90s. He used to rant about "big data is coming, they will know more about you than you do about yourself, and will use it to manipulate you and benefit themselves." He was totally right.
  6:43pm John from Florham Park:

@Linda lee for how long
@Mark I am sitting in a driveway just listening to this
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:44pm Mark Hurst:

@G - he was spot on. MANIPULATION is the name of the game. Surveillance is just a tool to get to manipulation.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:44pm Mark Hurst:

@John glad to hear it!
Avatar 6:45pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

That Levine interview: the web began w/ the Military & Surveillance. Computers process Information - it's what they do.
Avatar 6:46pm Linda Lee:

as long as we're in body, social media will be voluntary. we can get what we need to survive outside it.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:46pm Mark Hurst:

RR63: listen to the Techtonic interview - I delved into that point. Surveillance from Vietnam, to (U.S.) civil rights leaders.
  6:46pm John from Florham Park:

Mind you guys I am not a tinfoil type of person
Avatar 6:46pm geezerette:

Huxley. Relevant. 28 min.
Avatar 6:47pm TDK60:

"They know everything about you" from Hüsker Dü's tune, "Data Control" -1982.
Avatar 6:47pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Facial recognition made me sit up & take notice...
  6:47pm John from Florham Park:

@Linda your right about that
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:47pm Mark Hurst:

Tinfoil is for imagined conspiracies. This is real, documented history. And it's continuing to unfold.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:47pm Mark Hurst:

@geezerette thanks!
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:48pm Webhamster Henry:

Yeah! Pokemon! Gamifiying surveillance!
  6:48pm John from Florham Park:

@Mark that is the scary part
Avatar 6:48pm geezerette:

@Mark@6:44: precisely.
Avatar 6:48pm northguineahills:

Most isn't "Satellite View" unless you zoom out to about 70,000 ft alt (except areas, where there isn't more detail). Anything zoomed in closer is by air flights.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:50pm melinda:

@Rabbit me too. Today I bought plane tickets and was happy to have found a decent flight with Delta, since I've had bad experiences with the other airlines, then started reading on their site about how they are proudly leading the way with facial recognition check-in and boarding! It's optional at this point but ugh.
Avatar 6:50pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

Never been adjudicated.
I think of what it took to get the Tobacco Industry to tell the truth...
Avatar 6:50pm geezerette:

RevRab, yes, DARPA project.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:51pm chresti:

They lure you in after suggesting how helpful and nice they are
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:51pm Ken From Hyde Park:

On the subject of Google, I heard something recently that they give you the option of forgetting your old data. I'll believe it when I see it.
  6:52pm John from Florham Park:

@KHFP I use duck duck go
Avatar 6:52pm Linda Lee:

ooooh cool! pro growth!
Avatar 6:52pm geezerette:

In effect, social engineering and we're pretty well in by now.
Avatar 6:53pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

A Roosevelt. We need one.
Teddy had to go 'Independent' tho' to fight the barons. A financially comparable thing to now.
Avatar 6:53pm Number Six:

Any objection to my sharing your web address ?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:53pm chresti:

Workers at FB revolt! (nicely)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:53pm G:

I probably have an older FB account than almost anyone, back from edu-only days, late 2004. But I used a fake name and only ever use it to look at things friends ask me to look at occasionally. Why would I volunteer to bring all my current and former colleagues, friends, family, personal life, etc. into one place where they can all see and contact each other? That's nuts. I'd already been googlestalked (back in the mid 90s, altavista-stalked, I guess) by the guy who invented the term weblog (later, blog). No way was I doing that.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:54pm melinda:

@Linda right. We need equilibrium, not more growth.
Avatar 6:54pm TDK60:

LL, I detect a smirk.. [?]
Avatar 6:54pm Linda Lee:

well goodness, we've been involved in massive social engineering efforts since industrialization.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:54pm Ken From Hyde Park:

@JfFP - With Android phones, there is lots of other data that Google collects, including location.
Avatar 6:55pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

FIRST THING fb does is pressure you to use your real name - & detail your entire life history.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:55pm chresti:

Rod Sterling sounding
Avatar 6:55pm Linda Lee:

'free will' after Bernays? 'democracy after HAVA? not really ~ but how bad does it have to get?
Avatar 6:55pm annie:

i so totally appreciate this show..it reinforces my reticence to share so widely on the internet.anddon't getme started on ancestry.com or 23youandme
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:56pm Ken From Hyde Park:

@RRN63 - X.Ray Burns mentioned that on the air once. He had to switch to his real name.
  6:56pm John from Florham Park:

Ken I use have an iPhone and iPad
Avatar 6:56pm geezerette:

Mark, Roger, pals, thanks for another extraordinary show.
Avatar 6:57pm Linda Lee:

i do have a facebook friend named June E. Purr. she's a tabby. she's yet to detail her rather short personal history.
  6:57pm John from Florham Park:

RRN63 there are a lot of things Facebook does not know about me
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:57pm Webhamster Henry:

Kurt Gottschalk at one point was banned on FB from using his own real name!
Avatar 6:58pm annie:

i manage a group on FB with MANY fake names as members
Avatar 6:58pm Linda Lee:

they don't want real names. they want real looking names.
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:58pm Webhamster Henry:

All messages - posts, messages, news .... - should look like this:
Hash: SHA256


- -----END PGP MESSAGE-----

Avatar 6:59pm northguineahills:

Thanks Roger and Mark!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm chris:

thanks, Mark!
Avatar 6:59pm geezerette:

Candy covered STASI.
Avatar 6:59pm TDK60:

merci. thanks.
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 6:59pm Webhamster Henry:

FB wants names that can link (probably) to non-Facebook services.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm melinda:

Great show Mark, thanks!
Avatar 6:59pm Linda Lee:

oh heavens. these venture capitalists think they can do anything.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:00pm chris:

Moonalice plays around here pretty regularly.
Avatar 👻 Swag For Life Member 7:00pm Webhamster Henry:

Nice and in depth tonight!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:00pm melinda:

Roger is also part of the Doobie Decimal System.
Avatar 7:00pm Linda Lee:

blow your nose next time, man!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:01pm chresti:

The numbers, that's all they care about
Avatar 7:02pm Linda Lee:

stop giving coke to your bassist!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:02pm chresti:

Thet'll all jump ship when they see it's a loosing proposition
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:03pm chresti:

Avatar 7:03pm Linda Lee:

it sure is! now let's see who loses first.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:03pm Ken From Hyde Park:

Thanks, Mark. Good luck at the movie night!
Avatar 👻 7:05pm Bas NL:

Thanks Mark!
  7:21pm Montana Slim:

Cellphone digital compression and a Joe Frank type voice don't mix well... it's hard to figure out what this guy is saying half the time.
  7:37pm Montana Slim:

2nd part sounds a little better...
  10:03am JakeGould:

Hey Mark! Commenting late because I just heard about the film “Dillinger is Dead” (1969) and this bit of dialogue attributed to Herbert Marcuse’s 1964 book “One-Dimensional Man” and thought it would be right up you alley:

“One’s needs for physical survival are met by industrial production, which, in addition, sets forth as equally necessary the need to relax, to enjoy oneself… to behave and consume according to advertising models that render in explicit detail desires anyone may experience. Film, radio, television, the press, advertising, and all other facets of industrial production are no longer directed at different goals. Under these conditions of uniformity, the old sense of alienation is no longer possible. When individuals identify with a life-style imposed from without and through it experience gratification and satisfaction, their alienation is subsumed by their own alienated existence.”

Only small tweaks are needed to apply that to the digital age.
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