Options Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from September 17, 2018 Options

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Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. Tech, community, video games, and whatever else is next.

Mondays 6 - 7pm (EST) | On WFMU (Info) | 91.1, 90.1, 91.9 FM & wfmu.org
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Options September 17, 2018: What happened when Jessamyn West sued Equifax

Listen to this show: MP3 - 128K | | Add or read comments

This week: Jessamyn West on digital hiring-and-firing, and what happened when she sued Equifax.



Jessamyn's story:

Losing (July 28), her account of the hiring-and-firing experience.

Image of the offer letter (July 2), "The offer letter I got from a tech company you have definitely heard of is an 813 x 6318 px jpg."

The Waking, by Theodore Roethke

Recent Tech News

Google and the ennui of learned helplessness (Neil Turkewitz, July 18): "Google seeds and funds some of its most loyal academic and nonprofit allies by payments . . . Those recipients, in turn, have formally and informally supported or taken up Google’s causes . . . [this] simply compounds the ennui of learned helplessness that artists feel in dealing with the company."

Google’s Dragonfly abandons “don’t be evil” (Matthew Yglesias writing in Vox today, Sept 17): "While normal people like us live in a morality-supporting social context where if I told people, 'I’m going to make some extra cash by helping autocratic regimes spy on their citizens,' they’d be appalled, Google exists in the opposite kind of context." [To be fair, Facebook supports its own autocratic regimes. -mark] Along the same lines, Google Employees Are Quitting Over The Company’s Secretive China Search Project (BuzzFeed News, Sept 13) about a list of "seven employees who say they quit their jobs at Google over a lack of corporate transparency."

New Mexico sues Google, Twitter for illegally collecting data on children (UPI, Sept 16): The lawsuit comes after a University of California, Berkeley study analyzed nearly 6,000 children's apps and found that the majority of them appeared to violate COPPA. "These apps can track where children live, play, and go to school with incredible precision." See also the NYT story.

Where in the World Is Larry Page? (Bloomberg, Sept 13): "Until the Senate hearing, Google had ducked much of the scorn heaped on the social media behemoths, especially Facebook Inc. Yet Google, more than any other tech company, set us on this path to unprecedented data mining and a world in which corporations track us online and off. . . . What’s occupying Page’s time today? People who know him say he’s disappearing more frequently to his private, white-sand Caribbean island."

...and from the Uncanny Valley:

"It's Raining, It's Pouring" story from Boing Boing

- - -

PODCAST: Subscribe to the Techtonic podcast

Artist Track Album Images Approx. start time
  Jessamyn West sued Equifax - and won. A hopeful case study in taking action against Big Tech.
Tomaš Dvořák  Game Boy Tune   Options Machinarium Soundtrack 
Options
 
  Mark's intro    
Options
 
  Interview with Jessamyn West    
Options
0:15:07 (MP3 | )
  Uncanny Valley    
Options
0:31:58 (MP3 | )
  Your calls and comments 201-209-9368    
Options
0:40:35 (MP3 | )
Cult Fantastic  Screens   Options     0:54:58 (MP3 | )

Listener comments!

Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:01pm ultradamno:

Hello Mark, Techtometers!
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:01pm listener james from westwood:

How do, Mark, Jessamyn, and all!
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:01pm TDK60:

Hello Mark, been a while.
Avatar Mon. 9/17/18 6:01pm geezerette:

I am a partial Cretin. :)
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:02pm herb.nyc:

hi mark & all, you can't spell TECHMOLOGY without EMO.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:02pm Bas NL:

Techtonic time! Hi Mark & Techtonauts!
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:03pm Michael 98145:

we love visiting libraries. and real post offices ...
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:03pm herb.nyc:

more power to Jessamyn - I hope it's good news we're hearing.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:03pm Crudbringer:

ZOMG, MeFi's Jessamyn!
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:05pm northguineahills:

@Michael: A brand new public library branch just opened two blocks away from my house last month.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:05pm Rich in Washington:

I always show up after roll call.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:05pm Bas NL:

Durrrr...
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:05pm Michael 98145:

some newer libraries are really quite inviting
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:05pm dale:

I AM STILL A TOTAL DULLARD.
Avatar Mon. 9/17/18 6:06pm geezerette:

Rich, you rebel!
  Mon. 9/17/18 6:06pm melinda:

Hi all
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:06pm dale:

....THE INTERNET MADE ME THAT WAY.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:06pm herb.nyc:

so cute, mark said EN-WE. ain't it pronounced AAWN-WE?
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:07pm Folsom:

Mark, any chance of you having Michael Chertoff on the show? He just put out a book about getting rid of social media, pretty big change from someone who helped write the Patriot act.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:07pm JakeGould:

Learned helplessness is the core of the plot of every Woody Allen movie.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:08pm TDK60:

Thought of a funny band name: Ennui & the Enthusiasts, but I digress.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:08pm ultradamno:

In fairness "Don't Be Evil" was really holding Google back from being it's true self.
Avatar Mon. 9/17/18 6:09pm geezerette:

I'm wearing a class ACTION-SUIT !
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:09pm Webhamster Henry:

Hi 'tonics
Avatar Mon. 9/17/18 6:10pm geezerette:

Google overcame its learned helplessness.
  Mon. 9/17/18 6:11pm BigCat:

Have these PLATFIRMS bought any small countries yet??
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:12pm Webhamster Henry:

But Duck Duck Go works in China, right? Who needs Google?
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:12pm listener james from westwood:

Clint Eastwood had to be physically restrained from addressing the chair.
Avatar Mon. 9/17/18 6:14pm BigCat:

do we know the names of the 7 who left Goggle on principle? re transparency
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:16pm chris:

the little engine that could (keep track of what you do online)

hi, Mark and tonicians.
Avatar Mon. 9/17/18 6:16pm BigCat:

"circular logic" = "you shouldn't buy these apps that we sell"
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:17pm ultradamno:

We didn't tell you that you should let your kids get in our van, that's on you.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:17pm herb.nyc:

helpless? only Neil Young is helpless. wait, mark used word HEGEMONIC. I feel helpless with 4syllable words.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:17pm Michael 98145:

many agencies are abandoning their internal email servers and forcing employees onto gmail and outlook "services"
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:17pm Sid:

With Google and Android, you are the product. The advertisers are the customer.
Avatar Mon. 9/17/18 6:21pm geezerette:

The New York Times digital subscriptions are connected to Facebook and Google. You are pushed by their graphic design to log in with either of those rather than NYT. It's a racket.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:23pm Folsom:

@geezerette I use a separate login for NYT digital, it does take more clicks to do that though
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:23pm Webhamster Henry:

Oh god the crap I go through to not end up getting a job!

And how about needing a credit score to rent an apartment? I predate that!
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:24pm Beast of Boonton:

tracking how long you are interacting with a urinal
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:24pm northguineahills:

I'm being very unproductive at work currently (no one monitors me, I'm judged by the work I do).
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:25pm Webhamster Henry:

I'm very productive at my non work currently.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:25pm Mark Hurst:

Hi everyone, thanks for tuning in this evening!
Avatar Mon. 9/17/18 6:27pm geezerette:

Words like Nation, citizen, person, others I can't think of right now, are fairly drained of meaning. Actually horrifying.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:28pm Beast of Boonton:

seems they skipped the phone part of interview
  Mon. 9/17/18 6:29pm Epz:

Sorry Mark, tonight's guest sounds like a moronic social justice warrior. Additionally, she is cryptic at best with the details of her sob story. Surprised you take her seriously.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:29pm herb.nyc:

@geezerette. right right right. add privacy to the list.
  Mon. 9/17/18 6:30pm gw:

Wacky ass employee .
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:30pm Mark Hurst:

Have to respectfully disagree with you there, Epz. My sense is that her experience is indicative of where hiring/management is going in the digital economy, hence the relevance
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:31pm JakeGould:

Well, I think calling the guest a “Social Justice Warrior” is harsh and trollish, but will say I am having very hard time understanding what any of her story is about. Valid or invalid, I’m quite confused by the way she’s explaining this.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:32pm Mark Hurst:

And yeah, no need for harsh language.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:32pm northguineahills:

The gig economy is why I left NYC and took a pay cut to work in a more intimate and secure environment.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:32pm Beast of Boonton:

has anyone checked her Facebook page yet?
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:33pm JakeGould:

FWIW, I get that she stood up against Equifax in smalls claims court. But I really don’t get utterly anything else that she is elaborating on.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:34pm listener james from westwood:

Like her all the more for her use of the verb "kvetched."
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:35pm βrian:

My cat loves to play kvetch.
Avatar Mon. 9/17/18 6:36pm geezerette:

NGH, a definite win. Maybe you're avant garde and that will become a giant trend.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:36pm Carmichael:

I am a luddite.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:37pm Linda Lee:

yes, know the terms & conditions prompts very well. likely purposefully difficult to wade through.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:38pm Webhamster Henry:

I really want to put a T&C on my website that has a nice fee in the middle.

Many of these documents are legally unenforcible.
Avatar Mon. 9/17/18 6:38pm BigCat:

there will be little TRAPS added in to the T& C ha!
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:38pm Linda Lee:

of course we don't read this shit! we want what we want & we want it now.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:39pm Carmichael:

I'm waiting for a restaurant server to hand me my meal and a set of terms and conditions.
Avatar Mon. 9/17/18 6:39pm BigCat:

"I Agree" to offer my wife and children to Megafuk Inc. upon submitting this form.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:39pm Linda Lee:

not too bad if they're nourishing..
  Mon. 9/17/18 6:40pm Garden Variety Lurker:

Isn't Uber already doing the terms and conditions thing with employees... Or to put it another way isn't the relationship to Uber that an employee has basically a software user sort of relationship?
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:40pm TDK60:

Have you read *all* of the WFMU comments board Etiquette Manual? I just clicked "agree".
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:41pm Linda Lee:

& no one ventures out to look for this child? helpless!
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:41pm Webhamster Henry:

You laugh; check out these pre-nup agreements!
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:42pm Linda Lee:

if it was always the same i'd think technology.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:42pm Linda Lee:

i was offered a pre-nup agreement once & i laughed my ass off.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:42pm Ken From Hyde Park:

The official WFMU terms of service, for your reading pleasure: www.wfmu.org...
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:43pm listener james from westwood:

HOLY SHIT THIS SAMPLE IS SOME BLACK MIRROR SOUNDING STUFF
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:43pm Linda Lee:

that kid is so clearly a techno-child! there's no echo in a field, people! :-)
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:43pm Webhamster Henry:

This Vehicle is protected by VIPER!
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:43pm northguineahills:

My pre-nup was me signing my marriage license, and the ceremony in town halll....
Avatar Mon. 9/17/18 6:43pm geezerette:

Mark, that is so creepy...
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:43pm WFMU listener WADE:

that is creepy; awesome.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:43pm ultradamno:

I've seen too many horror movies to ever investigate children singing plaintively in a field at night.
Avatar Mon. 9/17/18 6:44pm geezerette:

L. James, yes!
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:44pm Linda Lee:

you go out in a group with pitchforks.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:44pm WFMU listener WADE:

that song has a place in American Horror Story.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:45pm Linda Lee:

helpless? no! pull the damn plug!
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:45pm Webhamster Henry:

I am Webhamster Ennui.
Avatar Mon. 9/17/18 6:46pm geezerette:

Linda Lee, and torches, which has unfortunate connotations these days.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:46pm Revolution Rabbit Nov63:

- & because of spiders on lenses. Too perfect! HappyHalloween...
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:46pm Linda Lee:

Chertoff! skeletor himself!
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:46pm TDK60:

Ken fHP: Thanks for posting that. I did read that but sort of skimmed/glanced. I should read all the fine print.
Avatar Mon. 9/17/18 6:46pm BigCat:

oops -- everyone on this chat forgot the adbusters.org #occupysiliconvalley
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:47pm Linda Lee:

torches are good. very nice optics.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:47pm βrian:

Keep calm and carry ennui.
Avatar Mon. 9/17/18 6:47pm geezerette:

L.L., exactly!
Avatar Mon. 9/17/18 6:48pm BigCat:

snarky: "China works in Google" the whole country
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:48pm herb.nyc:

OP-OP-HEUI, is how to say DUCKDUCKGO in cantonese.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:48pm Webhamster Henry:

Mark predicts: Duck Duck Go will be forced to be Peking Duck Duck Go.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:48pm Linda Lee:

i fear there is no 'tuchus' in China.
Avatar Mon. 9/17/18 6:49pm geezerette:

...regarding Chertoff,(heh, shirt off...)
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:49pm Sid:

re the FMU regulations: TL; DR. Except for the kibosh part. Can they really do that?
Avatar Mon. 9/17/18 6:49pm geezerette:

shudder...
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:49pm herb.nyc:

spk'ng of SPIDERS, there's a funny about this guy's spider art in book "the internet is a playground"
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:49pm Beast of Boonton:

Wake n Bake banned roll call
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:49pm Michael 98145:

US of A: E Pluribus Profit
  Mon. 9/17/18 6:49pm Serpent Strike:

Hello, Mark! Just finishing up some homework while listening to your show! And yes, indeed, Duck Duck go does work in china. P.S. Duck duck go is my search browser on my laptop!
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:50pm Linda Lee:

& this is why i hang with animals for a living. :-D
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:50pm melinda:

My favorite part of the terms of service: "WFMU is located in the state of New Jersey, USA. If you really screw things up somehow, you’re going to have to answer to New Jersey."
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:51pm herb.nyc:

New York public library uses google as well. in their internet classes, Microsoft and google are often products that are shilled.
Avatar Mon. 9/17/18 6:51pm geezerette:

Melinda, :D!
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:52pm melinda:

hi geeze
  Mon. 9/17/18 6:52pm JP:

Re: Gmail in schools. I work at a k-8 school district, our students are already on Google with faculty/staff being transitioned as I type.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:52pm Linda Lee:

sure, of course, using google etc is all about cutting costs.
we're cutting costs so faithfully across the business community that we're cutting our own throats.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:52pm Fredericks:

Equifax is compulsory without asking.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:53pm Linda Lee:

let's not forget, kids: addiction wins by default, when there's not much else happening.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:53pm Michael 98145:

if you outsource your email to cloud services, you outsource your responsibility regarding records retention. this is especially concerning in the health care industry.
Avatar Mon. 9/17/18 6:54pm geezerette:

L.L., needlessly building a global dystopia for decades already.
  Mon. 9/17/18 6:54pm hello!:

At my (adult ed) school, personal gmail is not compulsory; however, we do use Google classrooms, and those require a gmail address (access to drive).

We give students a new address, and I tell them they should only use it for school work.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:54pm Ken From Hyde Park:

@JP - The school district here is immersed in Google.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:54pm Folsom:

Here's the privacy page for the web player that WFMU has farmed out www.radiorethink.com...
mixpanel.com seems to track a lot
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:54pm Linda Lee:

you betcha!
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:54pm βrian:

I have an iphone now. No apps. I won't get another.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:54pm Webhamster Henry:

iPhone Tennis and iPhone Tenner! Actually the new Apple watch is almost worth having.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:54pm listener james from westwood:

IIRC WFMU switched to Gmail some years back from one of those old-old text-based email clients.
  Mon. 9/17/18 6:55pm hello!:

It’s just an FYI because we can use the tools without giving up all your personal information. Bests!
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:55pm Sid:

Flip phone, bah! I still use my Nokia 6010 candy bar.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:56pm Linda Lee:

isn't a creepy line what any female person under 70 in any social gathering will generally get?
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:56pm Carmichael:

I have an iphone 8 and series 3 Apple watch. I ... uh ... "under-use" them.
Avatar Mon. 9/17/18 6:57pm geezerette:

Thanks, Mark!
Buddies!
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:57pm Michael 98145:

thanks from the left coast
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:57pm northguineahills:

Thanks Mark!
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:57pm Bas NL:

Thanks Mark!
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:57pm Linda Lee:

i have a string & a coupla cans.
  Mon. 9/17/18 6:57pm JP:

@Ken From Hyde Park - Google Apps, Classroom, etc. I work in IT and was hired on due to my experience with student technology programs. I often wonder what the hell I'm doing in this field.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:57pm Webhamster Henry:

@hello, I suggest everyone get a domain with a catch all email forward in it; that way every service or person you give "your" email to gets an unique address, which can be leaked or compromised without much damage to the rest of your online life.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:57pm Linda Lee:

thanks again Mark!
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:59pm Beast of Boonton:

Mark - Your show is a great service!
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 6:59pm Webhamster Henry:

Shows about the gig economy in any of its aspects make my blood boil.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 7:00pm listener james from westwood:

Many thanks, Mark! Jessamyn would make a great semi-regular. MeFi is one of the few online communities not yet run rancid by trolls.
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 7:01pm Mark Hurst:

Thanks, everyone - appreciate you listening tonight. See you next week!
Avatar Swag For Life Member Mon. 9/17/18 7:03pm Webhamster Henry:

I just though I'd put in a post-show comment that CVL tokens go on sale tomorrow. I hope to be participating in the Civil process; there's a local newsroom down the street from me. civil.co
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