Options The Dusty Show with Clay Pigeon: Playlist from January 7, 2016 Options

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Street interviews, listener call-ins, vinyl gluttery, sporadic normalcy, original floperas and fiktion, blatant talking over songs, politix, tenderness, and a vague undercurrent of angst. Right up your alley!

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Options January 7, 2016: Obama, Guns, Interviews, Fun, Music and Moor

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Artist Track Album Label Year Format Comments Approx. start time
An Interview with Bob at Grand Central Station
Peter Banks  The Loneliest Sea   Options Two Sides of Peter Banks  Sovereign  1973  MP3  Original guitarist of Yes, later of Flash   
Phil at Grand Central Station
Art Garfunkel  99 Miles From L.A.   Options Breakaway  Columbia  1975  MP3  Written by Albert Hammond   
Chiming In
Larry Fast and Alan White  On The Run   Options Pink Box - Songs of Pink Floyd  Purple Pyramid    MP3  Pink Floyd Cover   
  Hillary Clinton speaks concerning the NRA
Pizza Gal
Dash Crofts  Today   Options Today  Lightyear  2000  MP3  Love him and this. Such a defining Seals and Crofts sound.   
Joe at Grand Central
Pavane  Berceuse   Options Pianorama - Modern Piano Music  Idol  2015  MP3     
Caroline Speaks to Us
Yanni  Santorini   Options Yanni Live at the Acropolis  Private Music  1994  MP3     
  President Obama Speaks About The Need for Gun Law Reform
Talking with Ufaldo
Tom Petty  You Got Lucky   Options Long After Dark  Backstreet / MCA  1982  MP3  Always liked this one.   
Claudia Shares some Thoughts
The Chocolate Watch Band  Expo 2000   Options No Way Out  Tower  1967  MP3  Never heard this before, or the band. Heard about them all my life. Really dig this!   
Mike Has A few Things to Say
West, Bruce & Laing  Pollution Woman   Options Why Doncha?  Columbia  1972  MP3  A Jack Bruce song. Jack from Cream, Leslie West and Corky Laing from Mountain.   
So Says Steve
Mahogany Rush  IV ... The Emperor   Options IV  Columbia  1976  MP3  One can hear the Hendrix in this. Love it.   
  Still Alive ... C. Pigeon
Banjo's Biscuit - C. Pigeon
  Thanks for listening to this episode of The Dusty Show on WFMU. President Obama had just finished addressing the nation concerning guns and I thought it might be a good time to hit the street and ask people what they thought about the subject.

As it was, I was on vacation for a few days and I had the opportunity to walk around a little and not visit my usual haunts of either Union Square Park or Penn Station/MSG. I ended up at Grand Central Station, which exposed me to quite a different cast of characters than I might have found elsewhere. I had to turn this show in early, as my wife and I were going to take a trip to Jamaica. As you read this, we have already made that trip and it was very cool. Jamaica was an unforgettable experience. You know, I thought about doing interviews there and that would have been interesting, but I chose to actually be on vacation instead.

Anyway ... I'm glad you listened to this episode. The Accu-Playlist was lively and that's always good to see. I am so tired right now. We just went to see The Revenent. Kirsten liked it. I struggled with it. And the world continues to turn. Goodnight all. Peace. I miss David Bowie. Dan Haggerty. Natalie Cole. Alan Rickman. Always, always remember. ........CP1.16.1699fIACNTSK

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Listener comments!

Avatar 6:06pm Marcel M:

I just don't understand when people say that, "gun control only effects the innocent." Do these people actually listen to what Obama said? It actually doesn't effect law abiding citizens who are mentally fit to own a firearm AT ALL.

Hi Clay!!
  6:06pm vanya moscow:

"Banjo initiation theory rotate salamandra"? Good evening everyone
  6:06pm P-90:

Happy New Year Clay, wherever you are...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:07pm steve:

yo Pidge!
  6:07pm V Priceless:

Happy New Year, Clay!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:08pm Carmichael:

Claaaaayyy ....
Avatar 6:08pm drewo:

Happy New Year Clay and Pigeonnaires. I'm ready to hear some Steve Hackett solo records now.
  6:08pm mink:

happy 2016 Clay and all the listeners!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:09pm coelacanth:

this guy's a total tool.
Avatar 6:09pm Ryab:

Lovely tunes today, Clay! Love you man
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:09pm coelacanth:

hi Clay and all.
Avatar 6:10pm Marcel M:

There was an extremely revealing article in The Times that showed all the guns that were used in killings and mass killings. An overwhelming amount of them were bought legally by people who should have clearly been denied them. Also, if your background check takes longer than 3 days, you are automatically allowed to then buy it cuz it took too long. Under federal law. What the hell? People who disagree with that sort of thing being changed are just sick, I'm sorry...
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:10pm Carmichael:

Get 'em all worked up, Clay. Then stick a mic in their faces ...
  6:10pm huh:

Do you love the USA? To me, that sounds like, Do you love the high school football team? Just me.
Avatar 6:10pm Marcel M:

Ok, I'm drinking whine now and rolling one up so I'll calm down now ;-)
Avatar 6:11pm Marcel M:

wine* HAHA! whine was a Freudian slip
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:11pm steve:

have the "we have a mental health problem" people explained what they're going to do to prevent gun violence by the mentally ill? i cannot find an answer to this question.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:11pm coelacanth:

Avatar 6:12pm Marcel M:

I'm whining with my wine over hea!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:12pm Linda Lee:

good evening! Happy New Year Clay!
Avatar 6:13pm glenn:

i'm an outsider, so maybe i'm not really qualified to ask americans the question, but honestly, who needs to own a gun? besides hunters and farmers, who need rifles, of course.
Avatar 6:13pm Marcel M:

@Steve: If the background check system was a bit better it would be easier to spot people with mental illness in the background check system. Putting way more money into a budget regarding this would lead, at least, somewhere in the right direction. People with mental health issues slip through the system right now, there are ways it can be made better.
  6:14pm Donald Trump:

Fuck yes and I'm so high right now !
Avatar 6:14pm Ryab:

I live in Texas and I'm surrounded by it but sometimes the things I hear from people I am around scares the shit out of me. I will never own one because I know I wouldn't be responsible with it, even though they are treated like toys buy half the people I meet.
  6:14pm Tommy:

Executive actions are illegal...really
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:14pm coelacanth:

i don't agree with this guy either.
Avatar 6:14pm northguineahills:

You can tell when Clay isn't in the studio when Fabio has the last 20 minutes to stretch out his show. ;)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:14pm Carmichael:

"I certainly was in the right."
Avatar 6:14pm Marcel M:

Here is the article: www.nytimes.com...

If you read through it it becomes clear that the background check system can be improved.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:15pm Linda Lee:

@glenn ~ as an outsider you're most qualified. frankly my belief is that everyone has an equal right to own a gun, as the need is basically emotional.
Avatar 6:15pm drewo:

DSOTM fans may enjoy 6Blocc's 2015 funky reworking of that album. On bandcamp.
Avatar 6:15pm Ryab:

6blocc's rework was great.
  6:16pm Tommy:

Glenn.. nobody
Avatar 6:17pm Ryab:

Ive heard people around here bitch about how hard it is to get a silencer. .......just why?
  6:17pm Sally:

Did that man say he didn't know if he was a member of the NRA or not? How could he not know that?
Avatar 6:18pm Hot Mess:

Bernie vs. Trump!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:18pm Linda Lee:

@Sally ~ maybe he's never paid dues.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:19pm steve:

right. i'm aware of that Marcel, i've still never heard a gun rights person say this, ive only hear libs say it... i hear NRA people saying "we have a mental illness problem", then not offering anything.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:19pm melinda:

Nice sounds Clay!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:20pm coelacanth:

the 2nd amendment is there to keep the government from getting out of control. we will regret it one day if no citizens have guns. but automatic multi-round weapons? NO ONE should be allowed them- (certainly not cops) except soldiers- and then only allowed to use them in times of war,on the soil which the war is being fought.
...and yes,obviously reform the background checks.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:20pm Carmichael:

Everyone needs a gun to protect themselves from everyone else who has a gun, which is everyone. That's the basic argument.
Avatar 6:21pm Marcel M:

@Steve: Oh I see, I'm sorry I misinterpreted what you wrote. I agree.
Avatar 6:23pm Marcel M:

Oh my god... Clay, next time someone says that can you please ask them how what Obama said will effect them??? Please????
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:23pm steve:

"the 2nd amendment is there to keep the government from getting out of control."

do people actually think anyone has any chance of fighting back against the goverment with guns? if the goverment wants you out you don't stand a chance, whatever gun you have.
Avatar 6:23pm dale:

ola pigeonairres.

but what if that deer is wearing protective armor?
Avatar 6:24pm Marcel M:

@Steve: I have two friends who own guns and say that same thing all the time. I really just suspect they are only concerned with being able to play with their toys.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:26pm Linda Lee:

@coelacanth ~ the concept of a citizenry utterrly without guns is such an outside hypothetical that it should bear no weight in debate.
@steve ~ absolutely right. the fantasy of armed rebellion against the government is just adolescent.
Avatar 6:26pm northguineahills:

All of my friends who own guns, are all for gun control, even those down South, now my uncle....
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:27pm Grok-o-matic:

dead air
  6:27pm Cglenn:

Great show tonite clay.
Enjoying it muchly!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:27pm coelacanth:

steve- if as many people as are in the armed forces and the police force had them? yes. soldiers don't want to get shot any more than anyone else.
Avatar 6:28pm dale:

linda lee? how about the ukraine? just sayin'....
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:28pm Grok-o-matic:

Nevermind, I had muted my headphones. Wow, so lame.
  6:28pm Tommy:

Clay , when someone tells you things went to hell under Obama , ask them what things ? And pls point out congress opposed everything he wanted to do ,even bills or programs past republicans would have supported
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:28pm Carmichael:

Clay, you're pretty mellow tonight. I guess you're not gonna break out the Cinderella?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:29pm Linda Lee:

i own a hunting rifle. if literally giving it up to any agency could assure a safer world for children, i'd do it in a heartbeat. no question.
Avatar 6:29pm Marcel M:

Yeah Clay, it would be cool if you asked people to explain themselves. I know you're not trying to trip people up, but just ask them, why and how every now and then. I'd be very curious to see what they would come up with.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:29pm Grok-o-matic:

People are going to get guns illegally regardless. And then you have less ways to track it.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:30pm steve:

coelacanth - so, you're saying, an organized citizen army not sponsored by the government, that's as big as the US army, could take on the US army?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:31pm coelacanth:

linda, you will be forced to do that if some people have their way. it's not hypothetical at all; it's what some people are pushing for...without also pushing for cops and soldiers having them.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:31pm melinda:

@Marcel and Linda Lee: Yes, the idea that the government could ever completely disarm the citizens is ludicrous. I also see a distorted sense of the risk vs. benefit of guns for self-defense.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:32pm Mike East:

I got live at the acropolis as one of my 10 cd's for a penny for joining one of those music clubs in the 90's
Avatar 6:32pm dale:

i'm ready for the olympics now after that yanni!
  6:32pm tommy t:

Creepy moment one - "here's my card ".
Creepy moment two - yanni
  6:32pm b/wad:

We love you Clay!
We're listening to your show on the drive back to Tel Aviv from a party in Haifa. Yanni taking us back to our respective parents' cassette tapes in the car
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:33pm Linda Lee:

@melinda ~ of course. on both counts.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:33pm coelacanth:

well,steve, maybe... but if it's too organised the government can track it- and destroy it.

...and,what Grok said.
Avatar 6:34pm Marcel M:

@Coelacanth: In reality the gov. coming and taking people's hunting rifle is no where near being on the table. The idea that it is is hurting the cause very very much because people are afraid their guns will be taken.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:35pm coelacanth:

the government makes a killing (pun intended!) bringing firearms into this country to be sold illegally. that's not going to stop, for the same reasons cocaine and heroin wont.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:36pm Linda Lee:

@coelacanth ~ at the present time i consider the possibility a total non-starter, simply due to the political power of the NRA. however, as i said, i'd be fine with it. i'm not emotionally invested in owning this rifle. & emotionality is really the Achilles' heel of both sides.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:37pm coelacanth:

Marcel- it's not near being on the table, just as cell phones weren't near being on the table only 20 years before everyone had them.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:37pm Linda Lee:

if only the NRA sold cocaine & heroin. we'd all be a lot safer. you can only kill one person with a loaded syringe.
Avatar 6:38pm Marcel M:

What do cell phones have to do with politics?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:39pm Carmichael:

And you currently can't own a multi-syringe clip.
  6:39pm AnagramOrgies:

We should get the guns to shoot heroin.
  6:39pm Tommy:

Hey lady , the action was not about taking guns away from anybody
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:40pm steve:

sorry coela 6:33 + 6:27, im sure this conversation could be carried out reasonably face to face, but reading that seems so over the top, out of the realm of possibility and reasonable discussion (on any side of the debate, even gun owners) im throwing in the towel for now.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:40pm Linda Lee:

@carmichael ~ of course if the first shot goes wrong, you neutralize the rest.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:40pm coelacanth:

i agree with this person...except i don't own one,don't hunt.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:41pm Linda Lee:

@Tommy ~ am i the lady you're talking to? how sweet of you. & yes, I know.
  6:41pm AnagramOrgies:

As a gun owner, I think I would get much more functionality out of my heroin-shooting gun, when it wasn't nodding off.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:41pm Grok-o-matic:

Make all the drugs legal.
  6:41pm Old Dave:

Great topic, Clay! Just had a conversation with my Mom over New Years about the same thing. Her Episcopal Church in Abilene TX is going "open carry" just now.
I'm asking her what does that mean. She says any kind of pistol, like sidearm. I say, well an Uzi is technically a pistol. It is a machine pistol (am I right, B/wad?) She sounded surprised.
Good luck, you Texas "Christians."
  6:42pm AnagramOrgies:

Make all the drugs legally available, but only if shot out of guns. This resolves the entire issue.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:43pm steve:

i like your style AnagramOrgies
  6:43pm Tommy:

Clay, this guy is insane , move on
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:43pm Grok-o-matic:

A lot of gun violence is from illegal drugs. So, just make em legal so I can get em at the drug store instead of in the projects at 3am.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:44pm Linda Lee:

thank you Grok.
Avatar 6:44pm Marcel M:

kids have no respect no mo... its a total melting pot ova hea! EY!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:45pm Ken From Hyde Park:

Maybe the politicians would like some more gun control if they spent time in a room with a bunch of mentally unstable people. And some of those people had their legally-purchased loaded guns on them.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:45pm Grok-o-matic:

There was a country recently that decriminalized all the illegal drugs. And spent the money they were wasting on their war on drugs on getting help for drug users. Apparently, their abuse of drugs went down, crime went down, etc. Quite a lot.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:45pm Grok-o-matic:

Hmm, have to see if I can find the articles on that.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:46pm Grok-o-matic:

Think it was Portugal
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:46pm coelacanth:

steve, i knew my opinion wouldn't be popular here. it's just that i have seen our rights disappear bit by bit ever since reagan and people who think a scenario as in the book "1984" is implausible have their heads in the sand. it would be easy for them even now...if no citizens had guns the deal is sealed.
...i still Love them!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:46pm Linda Lee:

yes, Portugal.
  6:47pm AnagramOrgies:

Grok, I agree with you on principal, but have you looked at the portuguese lately? Those squares are doing LESS DRUGS. How are we supposed to win a war when no one is doing drugs for us to fight?
Avatar 6:47pm Marcel M:

Coel: Even if I agreed with your principles, the idea that citizens having guns could prevent a 1984 scenario seems absurdly naive to me.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:48pm Linda Lee:

it's amazing what occurs when there's no political advantage to permitting murder.
  6:49pm AnagramOrgies:

and coel, come on dude, you know it's really about making supressors out of oil filters and popping off rounds in your garage without the neighbors calling the cops.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:49pm Grok-o-matic:

One problem with stricter gun control. The people that are still going to get them illegally are the ones that are wanting to use them for bad purposes. Then good people don't have them. So, when someone shoots up a movie theater with their illegally obtained guns there's no one to stop them. Seems the majority of targets for these lunatics are places where guns aren't allowed. Cus they know no one will be able to stop them.
Avatar 6:49pm Marcel M:

A piece of steel is actually a knife. Not a gun.
  6:50pm AnagramOrgies:

Switzerland has guns for everyone, they are assigned after strict training to every household.

That being said, the Swiss have a long tradition of staying out of fights, and we have 250+ years of nearly continuous war.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:51pm Grok-o-matic:

Education and Training seems better to me.
Avatar 6:51pm dale:

this conversation always reminds me of the itchy and scratchy movie where they keep pulling bigger guns on each other.
Avatar 6:52pm Marcel M:

They fight, they bite... fight fight fight... bite bite bite!
Avatar 6:52pm glenn:

change the constitution, i say. it was written almost 300 years ago. things have changed.
  6:53pm Tommy:

But Obama's action is not about taking guns away from people also this idea of a gun packer being able to have an effect in a movie theater shooting is highly problematic
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:53pm coelacanth:

AO, true- but i know that my friends who typically shoot pumpkins and stuff would use their guns if some shithead was knocking down their neighbor's door; or in a scenario like the holiday party shooting.
  6:53pm mink:

Wow that is the scariest thing to come out so politely .. "deal with these people who hate Americans first".. so if most of the world hates America, you gonna destroy everyone until only Americans are left?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:53pm Grok-o-matic:

Ultimately, I don't think you can change the situation. Especially not by creating new laws. Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Changing the laws doesn't change the people or their behavior.
  6:54pm Okay:

I love people who assert that ownership of automatic weapons is somehow a bulwark against government tyranny. As if ownership of a Tec-9 can effectively protect you from a drone deployed Hellfire missile fired from 2 miles away coming in through your living room window.
Avatar 6:54pm Marcel M:

Grok you really don't think that making it harder for people with a record and mental illness to get guns wouldn't help things?? If a gun check takes more than 3 days, you can buy the gun. No matter what, simply because it took so long. You think that is ok?
  6:55pm AnagramOrgies:

Yeah, but you're talking some pie in the sky shit, sire or madam grok-o-matic. The reality is that americans don't want to foot the tax burden or the time investment of proper training and education. We can't even learn to drive properly on a two lane highway and you want us to operate guns safely? I agree with you and coleo in terms of 'bad guys will always get guns', but don't try to say it will make anything safer. Guns don't make things safer, they just scare people into behaving to the tune of the guys with guns, be those guys with guns lunatics in theaters, rogue nations, revolutionary forces, or the armed executive branches of government.
  6:55pm mink:

Grok, I'm sorry that soundbite is pathetic. You can't shoot someone if you don't have a gun. Just look at gun deaths in the UK verses America. Even our police do not carry guns. And we have never had a school shooting. AND we are a lot closer to ISIS!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:55pm Linda Lee:

Grok, are we looking at the perfect as the enemy of the good?
  6:55pm Old Dave:

Mercy. Its a concept you can't make a bigot understand.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:55pm steve:

fair enough coela, but i still find that pretty problematic. i see virtually all gun hoarding militia folks as people who are severely misguided... most anger ultimatley stems from the shitty economy and jobs situation which stems from Wall Street people destroying the economy in the late 00s in a way that was never fully explained in mainstream news and is already extremely hard to understand for pretty much anyone who doesn't go out of their way to study it.
Avatar 6:55pm Marcel M:

Also not to mention the fact that the only reason Paul Ryan is in favor of the NRA is because he gets paid to be. Its not about second amendment rights, thats complete bullshit. Its money.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:56pm Grok-o-matic:

Again, you're not keeping the guns out of peoples hands. If someone wants a gun they will get it illegally and probably faster than waiting 3 days to get one legally. Or whatever it.
Avatar 6:57pm Marcel M:

How do you know that Grok? And why not try?
  6:57pm mink:

It is hard to get guns illegally. Especially if they have been illegal for a good few years. Australia's gun death rates plummeted after their restrictions came in.
  6:57pm AnagramOrgies:

Okay: I second that.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:57pm Linda Lee:

i feel as if i've been debating gun policy for the last week of my life. while the gun lobby continues to accrue political power through wealth & gun owners continue shooting up their own families.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:58pm Greg from ZONE 5:

Thanks, Clay—Happy 2016!
  6:58pm mink:

If you like guns then fine, but don't make stupid excuses. Just admit that there will be more deaths as a result of that freedom.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm Grok-o-matic:

Honestly, I don't care either way. And I don't think it would change anything even if you somehow took all guns out of America, which would be impossible anyways. If someone wants to get a gun to kill somebody they will get one. Just like if I want to go shoot cocaine into my nutsack. I will go find that cocaine.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm Linda Lee:

i'd put forward that the main issue here is the conflation of the US government with corporate power and not the innate violence in the American character.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm steve:

nice discussion here today!
  6:59pm AnagramOrgies:

okay, as a person with an illegally obtained gun here, I'm going to have to say it's stupid easy to get one, everyone should have one, and if everyone had an illegally obtained gun, regardless of their willingness to use it, the world would be... like australia after they killed all of the psychopathic murderers and only the people with small imaginations and a healthily cultured sense of risk aversion are left.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm Linda Lee:

Grok, i wouldn't advise shooting coke into the nutsack. bad site for infection.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 6:59pm coelacanth:

well,the bottom line for me is that i'd like NO ONE to have a gun...but as long as cops have them and they are coming in illegally, that desire is irrelevant.
  6:59pm P-90:

Thanks, for all of it, Clay: music, interviews, Banjo and his biscuit, etc...
Be back in studio next week?
  7:00pm Old Dave:

Didn't i hear suicide is still the #1 gun death scenario in our good old USA today?
Keep 'em handy, I guess.
  7:00pm mink:

do you have any idea how hard it id to get hold of a gun when they are illegal and seriously not cool???!! Kids here don't WANT guns. You are an idiot if you get into that nonsense.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:00pm Grok-o-matic:

How many people are killed by alcohol in America?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:00pm meowcow:

Marcel, get me a volkswagen beetle like Fabio's and an automatic gun for my birthday please.
  7:01pm AnagramOrgies:

grok- if you had my drug shooting guns, you could actually kill one nut with two ideological crusades.
Avatar 7:01pm Marcel M:

Has nothing to do with it Grok..c'mon man. Booze? you are bringing that up now?
  7:01pm mink:

In London people just stab each other, and even those crime rates have been falling.
Avatar 7:01pm Marcel M:

@Meowcow: All to easy in this country! Done!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:02pm Grok-o-matic:

It doesn't. Wait, what's the issue here?
Avatar 7:03pm Marcel M:

Hah... anyway. Nice discussing with you all. Have a good night Clay and all <3
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:04pm Linda Lee:

Clay copped out tonight. shame on him.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:04pm Grok-o-matic:

I think nearly twice as many people are killed by alochol than guns per year
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:04pm coelacanth:

well, he lit the fire!
  7:06pm AnagramOrgies:

Guns are like believing in Jesus
anti gun? don't get one, go to your homes and pray that the rule of law persists indefinitely, or at least until it's not your problem anymore.

pro-gun? Stock up on illegal firearms, bury them in the woods with a shit load of ammo, and turn into a mad max warlord in oh, say, 45 years or so.

on the fence? just get one and bury it anyway and hey, when judgement day comes, you, too, can shoot your own terminator robot/zombie braineater/future alien overlord
Avatar 7:06pm Marcel M:

@Grok: But what's your point? Do people go into theatres with booze and force people too drink it? It doesn't have to do with what we are talking about.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:08pm Grok-o-matic:

People go to theaters and get trashed and then run their cars into other people that went to the theater and kill them. Yes, it's just not necessarily on purpose or out of anger. But, it's a major issue. It's a implicit weapon much greater than the explicit weapon.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:08pm Grok-o-matic:

I guess the point was are you going to take away the alochol and make it illegal? Cus it kills away more people.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:08pm meowcow:

DUN DEATHS. www.humanosphere.org... Someone witha gun shot that guy on the AIR NOW
Avatar 7:08pm Marcel M:

Grok you are pro prohibition?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:09pm Grok-o-matic:

But, I really wasn't trying to make a point. Just throwing stuff out there and how irrelevant the entire discussion really is. There are much bigger issues in the world that we ignore and focus on non-issues.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:09pm meowcow:

GUN DEATHS I meant. Excuse my typo I am just a cat no thumbs
  7:09pm AnagramOrgies:

grok @7.08 YES, and then I would start a BOOTLEGGING OPERATION.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:09pm Grok-o-matic:

No, I don't want to get rid of anything.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:10pm Grok-o-matic:

I think making drugs legal is a better solution than taking anything away.
Avatar 7:10pm Marcel M:

There are a lot of problems, just mentioning other problems while talking bout one doesn't really mean anything. Its just derailing it. I also think drugs should be legal, but we aren't talking about that right now.
  7:11pm AnagramOrgies:

I mean, let's be real guys, we're all extropian economic socialists with a mean streak.
Avatar 7:11pm Marcel M:

@Meowcow: Well, its impressive you can type so well with those cute cat paws!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:11pm Grok-o-matic:

Well, it kinda does in that gun violence would most likely decrease if drugs were legal. And that is what we're talking about.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:13pm Linda Lee:

frankly i think guns are just another drug!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:13pm Grok-o-matic:

But suicides are the biggest number for gun deaths.
Almost double that of homicide. And if someone wants to commit suicide there are tons of ways besides a gun. So, we really shouldn't count the 20,000 suicide gun deaths anyways.
Avatar 7:13pm Marcel M:

We are talking about having stricter gun control. You are saying stricter gun laws would do nothing. I don't think legalizing drugs would solve the gun problem. FYI i'm not arguing that guns should be illegal altogether.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:14pm Grok-o-matic:

But, even more so, I think you just said something that made me go into troll mode. I really could care less either way. I don't have a gun, I don't drink, and I don't do hard drugs. And I don't think trying to make any of those things go away or stricter is going to change anything. Probably just make it all worse.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:15pm Grok-o-matic:

Oh that's what we are talking about? Then stricter gun laws will make the issue worse. End of that. That was an easy one. Guess I thought the discussion was a little bigger than that.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:15pm Grok-o-matic:

And I don't think I ever said stricter gun laws would do nothing.
Avatar 7:15pm Marcel M:

Ok Grok. Have a good night. G'night all.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:17pm Grok-o-matic:

If anything I implied stricter laws would make it worse. In everything I said. But, even I've offended anyone or made anyone upset, I apologize. I'm just bored waiting for traffic to go away before I leave work.
  7:18pm AnagramOrgies:

I have a gun, I drink, and I'm high as franklin's kite at the moment and I condone all of these acts in moderation and to the limits of good sense. But I also think the world is full of idiots who just want to talk really loud and angrily about things and think that this is all just soooo serious because seriously the people that disagree with us are some sort of troglodytes due to the fact that they disagree with us, instead of due to their actually being troglodytes, or vice versa.
Avatar 7:18pm Marcel M:

I understand your argument, I meant "would do nothing to help things" as your position. I hope you beat the traffic, you have not offended me. Have a good night.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:22pm meowcow:

Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:22pm Grok-o-matic:

@anagramOrigies I want a gun, I used to drink, and pot is pretty nice. Also, I think that's exactly right. No laws or policies are going to stop crazy people from doing crazy things. And stricter gun laws makes it no more difficult for crazy people to do those crazy things.
  7:22pm AnagramOrgies:

can we just all agree that the only thing that we can all agree on is that it is agreed that on all contentious matters, there are aspects of each ideology that are agreeable and others which are disagreeable, but that ultimately constructs like truth and ethics and morality are ever-changing and dependent on one's culture and perspective and can never be meaningfully agreed on?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:23pm Grok-o-matic:

yeah, definitely
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:23pm Grok-o-matic:

Culture I think is a big one here.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:23pm Grok-o-matic:

Places that don't have as much gun violence have a completely different culture and view of the world that effects that beyond gun laws.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:24pm Grok-o-matic:

And my bigger point with the alcohol was that it we tried to take it away and it made it worse. Same thing will happen with guns. That was the point.
  7:25pm AnagramOrgies:

how do stricter gun laws not make things more difficult fore crazy people?

If you are sane and malicious, like terrorists or domestic nudges that take over park visitor centers, tighter gun laws won't help.

But if you're an impulsive 17 year old kid, or some tinfoil hat goombah, the tribulations of red tape could definitely put a big damper in your plans.
  7:26pm AnagramOrgies:

I mean, I just jumped into the middle of this conversation, but yeah, prohibition is stupid and never works. That being said, regulation can cause massive social change.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:27pm Grok-o-matic:

Maybe you're right about the younger people. But, maybe they just get their friends dad gun. I mean teenagers still have an easy time getting illegal drugs. But, yeah that might cut down on kids or some people from trying to get a gun on an impulse. But, it's probably faster to get a gun illegally than it is legally anyways. I could be wrong.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:27pm Grok-o-matic:

Or at a gun show or flea market.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:28pm Grok-o-matic:

But, I guess if they take care of that "gun show loophole" Maybe that would create a small change/decrease.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:30pm Grok-o-matic:

I mean is the consensus here that stricter gun laws will change things and be an overall good/better thing? Just wondering.
  7:34pm AnagramOrgies:

again, if you're sane, and malicious, that's true.

But literally anyone can walk into the gun fair in harrisburg PA and buy a firearm. No questions asked. shit like that has to get shut down NOW, and there should be really difficult provisions, you should only be allowed to purchase certain firearms in certain quantities, etc, so that the amount of illegal guns that can reach the market is controlled.

I just say this as a big believer in the 2nd ammendment, I think everyone should own a gun, but since there are stupid people that don't see the advantages to breaking that zero sum game, the next best solution is 'one gun per person, strictly tracked, with enormous red tape and verification in order to purchase and a limit on the amount of ammunition you can buy at once. If you're a prepper you can get a gun for you and your wife and your 18 year old kid (I'd recommend a ruger 10-22 rifle, it's light and easy to fire and perfectly suitable for shooting a deer or a rabbit for food or a rogue militia getting ready to storm your village)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:36pm Grok-o-matic:

I agree AnagramOrgies. That's where I stand on it as well.
  7:36pm AnagramOrgies:

Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:36pm Grok-o-matic:

the loopholes need to be closed.
  7:37pm AnagramOrgies:

but they won't be as long as people believe the NRA and fox news reports to fight the estate tax.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:38pm Grok-o-matic:

I've never had a need to own or use a gun. But, I'd prefer a revolver.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:39pm coelacanth:

holy shit this conversation still exists!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:39pm Grok-o-matic:

The only thing though about what you said that I may disagree with is a limitation on one gun. Some people just collect guns. Whether old (possible not even usable) or new.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:40pm Grok-o-matic:

haha, unfortunately, I think it's a conversation that will always be around.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:42pm Grok-o-matic:

I will have to say I prefer the conversations about music and generally don't even get involved with conversations on politics or religion. Although, I guess music can be up there on that list. Mostly emotionally driven conversations.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:43pm coelacanth:

i agree; but i am passionate about most things that i think about- which is most things!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:45pm Grok-o-matic:

nothing wrong with that. I'm really not passionate about the gun control debate. I'm just spouting off. However, often I will argue a point I don't agree with just to try and present the other side or a different view point. Just one of my quirks.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:46pm coelacanth:

the thing that's frustrating for me is that the issue is so immensely complex that it's impossible to back up my opinion to several people simultaneously on a one-hour comment board (supposedly!)
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:49pm coelacanth:

for someone who *may not* "believe" in gun control, you presented some good insights that i did not express.
...but my point earlier about the government taking full control of the people- steve made a good point but responding to it adequately was impossible because it's far more complex than just "will the people be able to hold back the government?"
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:50pm Grok-o-matic:

Well, there's not going to be anything that everyone agrees on or shares an opinion. Unfortunately, but does it really matter? It's also really to have any kind of proper discussion in text on a sidebar of a website.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:52pm coelacanth:

absolutely...but people sometimes think an opinion as i expressed could mean i'm not concerned about the innocent people whose blood is shed, which is not the case.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:52pm Grok-o-matic:

It's not that I don't believe in or not believe in gun control. I'm just not sure it really matters. People are people and will do what they want. At the same time, having any laws is a good thing. But, again if we all agreed on things then we wouldn't have wars and murder. "will the people be able to old the government back?" Probably not. We let the governments dictate everything. And corporations dictate the government in a lot of cases.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:53pm Grok-o-matic:

I think most reasonable people are against blood shed in general. It's all the kooky edge cases. Honestly, religion probably has killed more people than anything ever.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:57pm coelacanth:

i think it's greed; but i'm opposed to organised religion in general.
- and i agree with what you said about drugs; but again it's a very complex matter!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:58pm coelacanth:

any way,maybe Clay will Never shut this comment board down! but i'm going to the drummer stream now!
Great communicating with you.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:58pm Grok-o-matic:

It's really complex. That's why it's difficult to talk about, agree on it, or change it.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 7:59pm Grok-o-matic:

On an issue like this, it's so complex, we will always be divided on it.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 8:00pm Grok-o-matic:

What's culture ape? Is that your music?
Avatar Swag For Life Member 8:00pm coelacanth:

i'm back to say - sad,but probably true.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 8:02pm coelacanth:

Hahaha! that applies to that post too!
Avatar Swag For Life Member 8:02pm Grok-o-matic:

diggin it.
Avatar Swag For Life Member 8:03pm coelacanth:

ciao- going to Bill Mac's board
Avatar Swag For Life Member 8:04pm coelacanth:

oh! Thanks!
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