WFMU: Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from October 9, 2017

Listener comments!
	♥ 6:06pm Jeff: Yeah, I love those Monopoly Man photobombs.
	6:06pm Fox: HA HA HA HA HA HA!!
	♥ 6:07pm coelacanth∅: that's fucking hilarious! hahaha!
	♥ 6:07pm Threemoons: One of the best photobombs EVER.
	6:07pm listener james from westwood: This was the photobomb di tutti photobombi.
	♥ 6:08pm RomanDogBird: monopoly man pounds
	🤖 ♥ 6:08pm Bas NL: Nice one!
	6:08pm Bea: Love the Equifax and Monopoly game connect! Nice!
	♥ 6:09pm RomanDogBird: a true patriot
	♥ 6:10pm Jeff: If you're talking about the Equifax debacle... let me mention that I hope everyone's taken the time to listen to the Planet Money podcast about the evolution of credit bureaus: www.npr.org... Planet Money is (as I keep telling people, but they always ignore me because they're allergic to anything with the word "money" in the title) one of the small set of absolutely essential podcasts to listen to every emerging episode of, right along with On the Media.
	🤖 ♥ 6:12pm Ken From Hyde Park: The IRS has granted a $7.2M contract with Equifax, despite the data breach.
	6:12pm listener james from westwood: Whistling along to Super Mario Bros.
	6:13pm listener james from westwood: And agreed on Planet Money & On the Media.
	6:13pm cat: in monopoly arkansas avenue is pronounced are-cans-ass not are-can-saw
	6:14pm geezerette: top hats & spats
	6:15pm cat: thats the real atlantic city dialect
	♥ 6:15pm Threemoons: To our speaker: I alpha and beta test video games on the side, including many MMORPGs. Speaking of money and systems, will you be discussing the issue of in-game economies, cash stores in MMORPGs, the purchase of in-game money with real money, etc? Elder Scrolls Online is pretty much a closed system, no cash for in game cash, but WoW (and other Blizzard games), Revelation Online, and the new reboot of The Secret World all have kludges for buying in-game cash. Comments??
	6:16pm geezerette: Not so sure it was a critique. I think Monopoly was intended to teach capitalism to children.
	6:17pm glenn: and it worked.
	6:18pm geezerette: ha! yep!
	6:19pm glenn: although, if you use that logic, clue is intended to teach kds mad detection skillz.
	6:19pm cat: it was supposed to teach people the cool way of pronouncing arkansas (are-kanz-ass) avenue but it failed almost completely.
	6:19pm listener james from westwood: Holy crap, Diner Dash!
	6:19pm glenn: and risk...
	6:20pm Dean: Our neighbors borrowed our copy of Monopoly last week so their kids could play it. It's a copy I acquired when I was a kid, over 50 years ago.
	🤖 ♥ 6:20pm chris: i am wondering around inside an absurdist bureaucracy. we all are, aren't we?
	6:20pm listener james from westwood: Last game I played & enjoyed was Gone Home. Pulled me out of a deep dark hole. Kickass riot grrrl soundtrack too.
	6:21pm cat: a lot of people i know love risk, but they dont know about the board game
	🤖 ♥ 6:21pm Ken From Hyde Park: Google occasionally puts Pac-Man into the map app. You can chase the ghosts down your own streets.
	6:21pm geezerette: Yes, Franz, we are. :)
	6:21pm listener james from westwood: Now hotly anticipating House House's just announced, as yet unnamed game in which you play a GOOSE.
	6:22pm cat: i thought zork was a cool game and wishbringer. all text no graphics. very fun. more like radio with no pictures
	6:22pm listener james from westwood: Proud to say I got the first right of customization on our group copy of Risk: Legacy.
	6:22pm geezerette: Wait, did Mark say "classical post-modernism"?
	6:23pm herb.nyc: I just finished reading THE SPEED OF SOUND, Thomas Dolby memoir of music and techmology. The early internet days are mentioned, and I was surprised to see VR in 1993 (coined earlier?). re riot grrrl soundtrack, Dolby used word "sonify". What he helped do, put sound onto websites.
	6:23pm listener james from westwood: Leafing thru multiple folks' hand-drawn Zork or Adventure maps would be fascinating. In a sense there are tens of thousands of versions of the same world.
	🤖 ♥ 6:23pm chris: one of my favorite monopoly spin-offs is a game called dealer mcdope...
	6:24pm geezerette: ! Chris, really!
	6:24pm cat: does anybody here like the games with all text no pictures? and you type go north or take sword and that kind of stuff
	♥ 6:25pm Threemoons: BTW I have over 150 mods on my Skyrim buildout...
	6:25pm Dean: Good catch, geezerette. I heard "post-modernism," but not "classical." I'm no fan of the term "post-modernism," because I don't think it meaningfully refers to anything. However, in architecture one might mean by "classical post-modernism" the specific integration of classical architectural elements into new buildings. Obvs, that isn't what Zimmerman meant.
	6:26pm glenn: mostly, i think post modern is a fancy way of saying new crap.
	🤖 ♥ 6:27pm Ken From Hyde Park: My autistic (Aspergers) son was playing Simpsons Hit and Run at age 8 and he looked up how to mod the game. He put some pet shop wording on the side of a truck.
	🤖 ♥ 6:27pm chris: yeah, geezerette, created in 1971... an original can set you back several bills... i'd like one. have a friend with an original and he keeps it close at all times for fear i'll snake it. hehehehe
	6:27pm herb.nyc: Water- in England, McDonald's was on trial bec they were heavily promoting kid's meals as healthy. On the stand, they said "happy meals contain water".
	6:28pm Dean: Precisely. Similarly, "deconstruct" has become a fancy way of saying "take apart."
	🤖 ♥ 6:28pm chris: an example chance card might be, "got busted with a bag of grass, lose your stash or bribe the cop $20."
	6:29pm geezerette: Hi Dean. I was just surprised by the idea that anyone could consider anything as historically recent as post-modernism to be classical!
	6:30pm Rat: Anyone like text games and drug economies? Dopewars.
	🤖 ♥ 6:31pm Folsom: I see Santorum is talking about video games effects like it's 1990 again.
	6:31pm glenn: but mostly, it begs the question - when does modern end and post modern begin? it seems a little too clever by half.
	♥ 6:31pm Threemoons: oh noez Gamergate...FYI I am a girl person....yeah...bad scene...
	♥ 6:33pm Jeff: And then we look at the the links between the Gamergate assholes and the Sad Puppies assholes...
	6:33pm listener james from westwood: GG in 8 words: Asshole man sparks misogynistic hate legion after breakup.
	6:34pm Dean: Right, geezeretee, and assuming that post-modernism is at all historically distinctive. And right, glenn, but I think we can find ways to amass evidence--Google nGrams, for example--to help us describe trends in the use of the terms, even if their meanings are vague or various (such as the distinctive meaning in architectural design versus its meaning for, say, literary theory). My gripe is with the trend itself, which seems gratuitous.
	6:34pm geezerette: Currently annoyed by continual use of "disrupt" as if it's an aspirational value.
	6:34pm Dean: Whatever happened to strip poker?
	♥ 6:35pm melinda: @geeze yes.
	♥ 6:36pm Threemoons: Also, Gamergate may have alt-right assholes as participants, but it wasn't JUST that crew behind it. Remember, the PS3 and PS4 let you modulate your voice tone for in-game chat for a reason. You could do a whole show on it.
	♥ 6:36pm Jeff: @geezerette: Yes! It's a favorite word in Silicon Douchebag business pitches.
	🤖 ♥ 6:37pm chris: disrupt to the hbr crowd just means destroying an old paradigm in favor of a new one
	6:37pm Dean: Derives, I assume, from Schumpeter's "creative destruction"?
	6:37pm steve: i could not agree more geezerette
	♥ 6:37pm melinda: Jeff haha
	♥ 6:38pm Mark Hurst: Hanabi card game: en.wikipedia.org...
	6:38pm glenn: i just got back from italy, where post modern means anything after the 15th century.
	6:38pm geezerette: Hi, Melinda! Hola, Jeff! Yo, Steve! :D
	6:39pm Dean: I'm not a game player, but I have to admit that one of the coolest stores in my town is Games of Berkeley. Wall to wall puzzles, games, magic tricks, costumes, crafts...
	6:39pm Sean d: I recommend Rocksmith, downloaded the tom petty song pack yesterday
	🤖 ♥ 6:39pm -Ken: Somebody should call at 201-209-9368
	🤖 ♥ 6:39pm Folsom: For novice players I recommend advanced squad leader :) just kidding.
	6:39pm geezerette: Glenn, hahaha!
	♥ 6:39pm northguineahills: I haven't played games in years, I just haven't had the time to get involved, but I used enjoy throwing away weekends on games.
	6:39pm Rat: Dean, the company that made Strip Poker was Artworx. They still have a website. http://www.artworx.com/
	♥ 6:39pm Jeff: @Dean - or pretty much from the "paradigm shift" in Kuhn's The Structure of Scientific Revolutions (1962)
	6:39pm Bea: My son and I just played the card game version of Oregon Trail. Awesome!
	6:41pm Eugene R.: The deluxe edition of Hanabi with very solid tiles in place of cards is slightly expensive ($50) but very, very worth it.
	6:42pm Dean: @Jeff: Am in the middle of a book, Quantum Dialogue, about (among many other things) how Kuhn's by-now classic title mistook the orthodoxy respecting the evolution of quantum physics.
	♥ 6:42pm Threemoons: Want to call in but can't; in fact, subverting work firewall to tune in. :(
	♥ 6:44pm Jeff: Yeah, I think the two most obnoxious and unpleasant things in the list (Dodgeball and Powerpoint) will last the longest. And both of them should burn in hell.
	🤖 ♥ 6:44pm Ken From Hyde Park: I vote dodgeball.
	♥ 6:45pm melinda: "Creative destruction" is another one. I read an article by Walter Kirn not long ago in which he said that the use of the term was akin to calling cancer "freestyle cell proliferation" or something like that. Iy turns something harmful into something dynamic and exciting.
	♥ 6:45pm Threemoons: Hello Kitty
	♥ 6:45pm melinda: That's really disappointing about Hello Kitty.
	6:46pm Sean d: dodgeball! i love pelting girls with....balls
	♥ 6:46pm RomanDogBird: FREDERICKS
	♥ 6:46pm Threemoons: whoops that was for best dressed.
	♥ 6:46pm Jeff: Goodbye kitty.
	6:46pm geezerette: Melinda, yes! @6:45
	♥ 6:47pm RomanDogBird: fredericks will outlive us all
	♥ 6:47pm Threemoons: Did you ever read Tufte's rant against Powerpoint?
	6:48pm Dean: Part of it, here: https://www.edwardtufte.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=0001yB&topic_id=1
	6:48pm Bea: Listener Question (can't call in!) - what do you think about "educational" video games? Any good examples of how educators can employ ed tech?
	6:49pm bruce: the meta game... cultural?? surely you must mean "the white people" game.
	6:51pm cat: prehumpday hazma7 repor7
	6:54pm listener james from westwood: I know this but will let others ring in—can't make it down

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from October 9, 2017

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Conversations with creators and thinkers who are charting the way forward in a tech-saturated society. Tech, community, video games, and whatever else is next.

Also available as an MP3 podcast. More info at our Podcast Central page.

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October 9, 2017: Why you should play games, feat. game designer & author Eric Zimmerman

Listen to this show: Pop-up listen Pop-up player!

You're invited to our first in-person meetup, in two weeks: Skeptech 2 on Thursday, Oct 26, at Monty Hall (doors open 6:30pm, show goes 7pm to 9pm) - hosted by Mark Hurst, featuring JON RONSON, NANCY LUBLIN, APARNA NANCHERLA, and JO FIRESTONE. Sign up soon before tickets sell out.

Eric's Kickstarter campaign for The Meta Game, shown below:

P.S. Subscribe to the Techtonic podcast!

Artist	Track	Approx. start time
Eric Zimmerman, game designer, for a live in-studio interview with Mark: discussing why games are important in today's tech-infused society.
Thomas Dvorak	Game Boy Tune "Game Boy Tune" by "Thomas Dvorak"
Mark Hurst	Intro "Intro" by "Mark Hurst"	0:03:01 (Pop-up)
Whitaker Blackhall	Mario Montage of Funk	0:09:04 (Pop-up)
Mark Hurst	The Techtonic Interview with Eric Zimmerman	0:10:17 (Pop-up)
Kosmischer Läufer	Morgenröte "Morgenröte" by "Kosmischer Läufer"	0:49:12 (Pop-up)
Mark Hurst	Skeptech Ticket Giveaway	0:50:51 (Pop-up)
Station Manager Ken	Scam Roundup "Scam Roundup" by "Station Manager Ken"	0:54:32 (Pop-up)
The Pink Tiles	Internet "Internet" by "The Pink Tiles"	1:00:37 (Pop-up)

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Listener comments!
	♥ 6:06pm Jeff: Yeah, I love those Monopoly Man photobombs.
	6:06pm Fox: HA HA HA HA HA HA!!
	♥ 6:07pm coelacanth∅: that's fucking hilarious! hahaha!
	♥ 6:07pm Threemoons: One of the best photobombs EVER.
	6:07pm listener james from westwood: This was the photobomb di tutti photobombi.
	♥ 6:08pm RomanDogBird: monopoly man pounds
	🤖 ♥ 6:08pm Bas NL: Nice one!
	6:08pm Bea: Love the Equifax and Monopoly game connect! Nice!
	♥ 6:09pm RomanDogBird: a true patriot
	♥ 6:10pm Jeff: If you're talking about the Equifax debacle... let me mention that I hope everyone's taken the time to listen to the Planet Money podcast about the evolution of credit bureaus: www.npr.org... Planet Money is (as I keep telling people, but they always ignore me because they're allergic to anything with the word "money" in the title) one of the small set of absolutely essential podcasts to listen to every emerging episode of, right along with On the Media.
	🤖 ♥ 6:12pm Ken From Hyde Park: The IRS has granted a $7.2M contract with Equifax, despite the data breach.
	6:12pm listener james from westwood: Whistling along to Super Mario Bros.
	6:13pm listener james from westwood: And agreed on Planet Money & On the Media.
	6:13pm cat: in monopoly arkansas avenue is pronounced are-cans-ass not are-can-saw
	6:14pm geezerette: top hats & spats
	6:15pm cat: thats the real atlantic city dialect
	♥ 6:15pm Threemoons: To our speaker: I alpha and beta test video games on the side, including many MMORPGs. Speaking of money and systems, will you be discussing the issue of in-game economies, cash stores in MMORPGs, the purchase of in-game money with real money, etc? Elder Scrolls Online is pretty much a closed system, no cash for in game cash, but WoW (and other Blizzard games), Revelation Online, and the new reboot of The Secret World all have kludges for buying in-game cash. Comments??
	6:16pm geezerette: Not so sure it was a critique. I think Monopoly was intended to teach capitalism to children.
	6:17pm glenn: and it worked.
	6:18pm geezerette: ha! yep!
	6:19pm glenn: although, if you use that logic, clue is intended to teach kds mad detection skillz.
	6:19pm cat: it was supposed to teach people the cool way of pronouncing arkansas (are-kanz-ass) avenue but it failed almost completely.
	6:19pm listener james from westwood: Holy crap, Diner Dash!
	6:19pm glenn: and risk...
	6:20pm Dean: Our neighbors borrowed our copy of Monopoly last week so their kids could play it. It's a copy I acquired when I was a kid, over 50 years ago.
	🤖 ♥ 6:20pm chris: i am wondering around inside an absurdist bureaucracy. we all are, aren't we?
	6:20pm listener james from westwood: Last game I played & enjoyed was Gone Home. Pulled me out of a deep dark hole. Kickass riot grrrl soundtrack too.
	6:21pm cat: a lot of people i know love risk, but they dont know about the board game
	🤖 ♥ 6:21pm Ken From Hyde Park: Google occasionally puts Pac-Man into the map app. You can chase the ghosts down your own streets.
	6:21pm geezerette: Yes, Franz, we are. :)
	6:21pm listener james from westwood: Now hotly anticipating House House's just announced, as yet unnamed game in which you play a GOOSE.
	6:22pm cat: i thought zork was a cool game and wishbringer. all text no graphics. very fun. more like radio with no pictures
	6:22pm listener james from westwood: Proud to say I got the first right of customization on our group copy of Risk: Legacy.
	6:22pm geezerette: Wait, did Mark say "classical post-modernism"?
	6:23pm herb.nyc: I just finished reading THE SPEED OF SOUND, Thomas Dolby memoir of music and techmology. The early internet days are mentioned, and I was surprised to see VR in 1993 (coined earlier?). re riot grrrl soundtrack, Dolby used word "sonify". What he helped do, put sound onto websites.
	6:23pm listener james from westwood: Leafing thru multiple folks' hand-drawn Zork or Adventure maps would be fascinating. In a sense there are tens of thousands of versions of the same world.
	🤖 ♥ 6:23pm chris: one of my favorite monopoly spin-offs is a game called dealer mcdope...
	6:24pm geezerette: ! Chris, really!
	6:24pm cat: does anybody here like the games with all text no pictures? and you type go north or take sword and that kind of stuff
	♥ 6:25pm Threemoons: BTW I have over 150 mods on my Skyrim buildout...
	6:25pm Dean: Good catch, geezerette. I heard "post-modernism," but not "classical." I'm no fan of the term "post-modernism," because I don't think it meaningfully refers to anything. However, in architecture one might mean by "classical post-modernism" the specific integration of classical architectural elements into new buildings. Obvs, that isn't what Zimmerman meant.
	6:26pm glenn: mostly, i think post modern is a fancy way of saying new crap.
	🤖 ♥ 6:27pm Ken From Hyde Park: My autistic (Aspergers) son was playing Simpsons Hit and Run at age 8 and he looked up how to mod the game. He put some pet shop wording on the side of a truck.
	🤖 ♥ 6:27pm chris: yeah, geezerette, created in 1971... an original can set you back several bills... i'd like one. have a friend with an original and he keeps it close at all times for fear i'll snake it. hehehehe
	6:27pm herb.nyc: Water- in England, McDonald's was on trial bec they were heavily promoting kid's meals as healthy. On the stand, they said "happy meals contain water".
	6:28pm Dean: Precisely. Similarly, "deconstruct" has become a fancy way of saying "take apart."
	🤖 ♥ 6:28pm chris: an example chance card might be, "got busted with a bag of grass, lose your stash or bribe the cop $20."
	6:29pm geezerette: Hi Dean. I was just surprised by the idea that anyone could consider anything as historically recent as post-modernism to be classical!
	6:30pm Rat: Anyone like text games and drug economies? Dopewars.
	🤖 ♥ 6:31pm Folsom: I see Santorum is talking about video games effects like it's 1990 again.
	6:31pm glenn: but mostly, it begs the question - when does modern end and post modern begin? it seems a little too clever by half.
	♥ 6:31pm Threemoons: oh noez Gamergate...FYI I am a girl person....yeah...bad scene...
	♥ 6:33pm Jeff: And then we look at the the links between the Gamergate assholes and the Sad Puppies assholes...
	6:33pm listener james from westwood: GG in 8 words: Asshole man sparks misogynistic hate legion after breakup.
	6:34pm Dean: Right, geezeretee, and assuming that post-modernism is at all historically distinctive. And right, glenn, but I think we can find ways to amass evidence--Google nGrams, for example--to help us describe trends in the use of the terms, even if their meanings are vague or various (such as the distinctive meaning in architectural design versus its meaning for, say, literary theory). My gripe is with the trend itself, which seems gratuitous.
	6:34pm geezerette: Currently annoyed by continual use of "disrupt" as if it's an aspirational value.
	6:34pm Dean: Whatever happened to strip poker?
	♥ 6:35pm melinda: @geeze yes.
	♥ 6:36pm Threemoons: Also, Gamergate may have alt-right assholes as participants, but it wasn't JUST that crew behind it. Remember, the PS3 and PS4 let you modulate your voice tone for in-game chat for a reason. You could do a whole show on it.
	♥ 6:36pm Jeff: @geezerette: Yes! It's a favorite word in Silicon Douchebag business pitches.
	🤖 ♥ 6:37pm chris: disrupt to the hbr crowd just means destroying an old paradigm in favor of a new one
	6:37pm Dean: Derives, I assume, from Schumpeter's "creative destruction"?
	6:37pm steve: i could not agree more geezerette
	♥ 6:37pm melinda: Jeff haha
	♥ 6:38pm Mark Hurst: Hanabi card game: en.wikipedia.org...
	6:38pm glenn: i just got back from italy, where post modern means anything after the 15th century.
	6:38pm geezerette: Hi, Melinda! Hola, Jeff! Yo, Steve! :D
	6:39pm Dean: I'm not a game player, but I have to admit that one of the coolest stores in my town is Games of Berkeley. Wall to wall puzzles, games, magic tricks, costumes, crafts...
	6:39pm Sean d: I recommend Rocksmith, downloaded the tom petty song pack yesterday
	🤖 ♥ 6:39pm -Ken: Somebody should call at 201-209-9368
	🤖 ♥ 6:39pm Folsom: For novice players I recommend advanced squad leader :) just kidding.
	6:39pm geezerette: Glenn, hahaha!
	♥ 6:39pm northguineahills: I haven't played games in years, I just haven't had the time to get involved, but I used enjoy throwing away weekends on games.
	6:39pm Rat: Dean, the company that made Strip Poker was Artworx. They still have a website. http://www.artworx.com/
	♥ 6:39pm Jeff: @Dean - or pretty much from the "paradigm shift" in Kuhn's The Structure of Scientific Revolutions (1962)
	6:39pm Bea: My son and I just played the card game version of Oregon Trail. Awesome!
	6:41pm Eugene R.: The deluxe edition of Hanabi with very solid tiles in place of cards is slightly expensive ($50) but very, very worth it.
	6:42pm Dean: @Jeff: Am in the middle of a book, Quantum Dialogue, about (among many other things) how Kuhn's by-now classic title mistook the orthodoxy respecting the evolution of quantum physics.
	♥ 6:42pm Threemoons: Want to call in but can't; in fact, subverting work firewall to tune in. :(
	♥ 6:44pm Jeff: Yeah, I think the two most obnoxious and unpleasant things in the list (Dodgeball and Powerpoint) will last the longest. And both of them should burn in hell.
	🤖 ♥ 6:44pm Ken From Hyde Park: I vote dodgeball.
	♥ 6:45pm melinda: "Creative destruction" is another one. I read an article by Walter Kirn not long ago in which he said that the use of the term was akin to calling cancer "freestyle cell proliferation" or something like that. Iy turns something harmful into something dynamic and exciting.
	♥ 6:45pm Threemoons: Hello Kitty
	♥ 6:45pm melinda: That's really disappointing about Hello Kitty.
	6:46pm Sean d: dodgeball! i love pelting girls with....balls
	♥ 6:46pm RomanDogBird: FREDERICKS
	♥ 6:46pm Threemoons: whoops that was for best dressed.
	♥ 6:46pm Jeff: Goodbye kitty.
	6:46pm geezerette: Melinda, yes! @6:45
	♥ 6:47pm RomanDogBird: fredericks will outlive us all
	♥ 6:47pm Threemoons: Did you ever read Tufte's rant against Powerpoint?
	6:48pm Dean: Part of it, here: https://www.edwardtufte.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=0001yB&topic_id=1
	6:48pm Bea: Listener Question (can't call in!) - what do you think about "educational" video games? Any good examples of how educators can employ ed tech?
	6:49pm bruce: the meta game... cultural?? surely you must mean "the white people" game.
	6:51pm cat: prehumpday hazma7 repor7
	6:54pm listener james from westwood: I know this but will let others ring in—can't make it down

Techtonic with Mark Hurst: Playlist from October 9, 2017

Listener comments!

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